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Russia invading Georgia
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/08/georgia.russia2]Russia battles Georgia over breakaway region of South Ossetia | World news | guardian.co.uk[/url]
This region, South Ossetia, decided they didn't want to be part of Georgia, and have basically been in conflict. Georgia launched a campaign to retake the area. Apparently some Russian property got destroyed in the process, and some Russians were killed. Now Russia has sent tanks over the border and commenced bombing targets in Georgia.
Some around 1000 people have already been killed, reportedly between 2 and 4 russian planes shot down and lots of property destruction in Georgia and the South Ossetia region. Georgia is calling for the U.S. to assist, diplomatically so far. Georgia has 2000 troops in Iraq, and is withdrawing 1000 to deploy against Russia.
This has me really nervous. If things continue it could draw a lot of countries into conflict. Georga has been a helpful ally of the U.S. for instance, and trying to get into NATO. The U.S. hasn't been exactly known for non-interventionalism.
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The media is using this for an anti-Russian campaign :rolleyes:
Hopefully the US doesn't decide to intervene
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Georgia == oil pipeline so dont' hold your breath for non-interventino :(
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i just checked off my ship today, and coincidently they are leaving tomorrow for the Black Sea. they will be part of a standing Nato group that stays in the Med and adjacent seas. I have a feeling there will be some maritime presence off the coast, whether they will play or not was a huge topic of discussion today on the ship, but there has been nothing official from the miltary side. (even if there was i probably woudlnt be able to discuss it on here.)
whether we will send a carrier battle group or not depends on a lot of factors. i really think its unlikely though. that woudl probably exacerbate the situation, and worsen our already fractious relationship with russia.
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Russia has a "peacekeeping force" in South Ossetia. It has practically been giving away Russian passports to Ossetians, with a minimum of bureaucracy. As a consequence, about 90% of South Ossetians are now "Russian citizens".
Therefore, Russia is arguing that it is only protecting its citizens (while attacking Georgian military and civilians in Georgia), while Georgia is saying that it was only moving troops within its own country (while possibly violating a peace agreement concerning an autonomous region).
Depending on your point of view, both the South Ossetians and the Georgians could therefore claim "underdog status".
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[QUOTE=cmcpokey;823791]i just checked off my ship today, and coincidently they are leaving tomorrow for the Black Sea. they will be part of a standing Nato group that stays in the Med and adjacent seas. I have a feeling there will be some maritime presence off the coast, whether they will play or not was a huge topic of discussion today on the ship, but there has been nothing official from the miltary side. (even if there was i probably woudlnt be able to discuss it on here.)
whether we will send a carrier battle group or not depends on a lot of factors. i really think its unlikely though. that woudl probably exacerbate the situation, and worsen our already fractious relationship with russia.[/QUOTE]
Putin is going to be pissed if there is a US carrier laying in wait.
I don't think the US will take action against Russia, because one of Russia's top allies is--China
And this my friends, is why the US needs a president who will be willing to delve into correct foreign policy.
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[QUOTE=Zytek_Fan;823801]Putin is going to be pissed if there is a US carrier laying in wait.
I don't think the US will take action against Russia, because one of Russia's top allies is--China[/QUOTE]
first point... couldnt agree more. one of the main reasons i find it unlikely.
second point, disagree with the china thing. i think it is because they are a large country with viable military, and a regional power on 2 continents. they are way more of an issue than we can legitemately deal with.
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[QUOTE=Zytek_Fan;823801]
And this my friends, is why the US needs a president who will be willing to delve into correct foreign policy.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. One of the biggest things that makes me nervous is who we have handling this touchy situation.
I'm not going to accuse anybody, I know all sides involved have their own perspective and feel their actions are the right ones.
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[QUOTE=Zytek_Fan;823801]Putin is going to be pissed if there is a US carrier laying in wait.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Russia's president might also be upset...
I doubt much will come of this in terms of a global conflict but I have heard reports of ethical cleasing :( could be a Balkans 2.0
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[QUOTE=Zytek_Fan;823801]Putin is going to be pissed if there is a US carrier laying in wait.
I don't think the US will take action against Russia, because one of Russia's top allies is--China
And this my friends, is why the US needs a president who will be willing to delve into correct foreign policy.[/QUOTE]
What would correct foreign policy be? I would say just stand back. It's their issue. I don't like violence, but we have way too much on our hands as it is.
What's the deal with Georgia? Why do they want to split? Can anyone bring me up to date with this country? I know it used to be part of the USSR, and half of it wants to stay in Russia and half doesn't? That's my understanding so far.
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[QUOTE=Zytek_Fan;823801]Putin is going to be pissed if there is a US carrier laying in wait.
I don't think the US will take action against Russia, because one of Russia's top allies is--China
And this my friends, is why the US needs a president who will be willing to delve into correct foreign policy.[/QUOTE]
Putin is going to be upset sure but I don't think it'll mean too much to him. His respect for bush is so low I doubt he takes any threats or signs of force too seriously.
Couldn't agree more on your final point though.
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[QUOTE=The_Canuck;823805]Yeah, Russia's president might also be upset...
I doubt much will come of this in terms of a global conflict but I have heard reports of ethical cleasing :( could be a Balkans 2.0[/QUOTE]
Ethical cleansing huh? :P Now *that* is an interesting idea.
Right now, the US and EU are doing what they should do, urge everyone involved to calm the f*** down, but supposedly Kazakhstan for instance is allying with Russia, I can imagine a slow dribble of countries choosing sides that will finally force larger countries to get involved to protect their interests. It could be very bad, or it could be only a little bad (many people are already dead, it certainly isn't *good*)
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[QUOTE=NSXType-R;823811]What would correct foreign policy be? I would say just stand back. It's their issue. I don't like violence, but we have way too much on our hands as it is.
What's the deal with Georgia? Why do they want to split? Can anyone bring me up to date with this country? I know it used to be part of the USSR, and half of it wants to stay in Russia and half doesn't? That's my understanding so far.[/QUOTE]
Correct foreign policy as in willing to negotiate and not go in and blow shit up first.
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Er...is it me, or is it funny that there's a McCain 2008 ad?
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[QUOTE=kingofthering;823826]Er...is it me, or is it funny that there's a McCain 2008 ad?[/QUOTE]
Thank God I'm premium and don't get to see that idiot's face! ;)
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[QUOTE=Niko_Fx;823833]Thank God I'm premium and don't get to see that idiot's face! ;)[/QUOTE]
It doesn't show his face. It shows a Mr Ahmadinejad and a Mr Obama actually.
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In my opinion this is the beginning of the end
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How the hell did Russia invade Georgia and the U.S. hasn't been involved yet? Atlanta is one of the bigger U.S. cities...
All kidding aside, all I can say is.. oh well. Here we go again.
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Apparently all the Georgians in that region held Russian passports, so they are registered as Russian citizens, which means Russia is merely protecting their citizens from conflict.
I'm wondering if Georgia sent troops to the southern region to provoke a NATO or US response
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It's fairly typical of this region for breakaway republics to develop. southern Ossetia has been attempting a breakaway for what seems like an eternity - and to be honest, save for the economic requirements, I can't see why anyone would care.
The Balkans broke apart in the 1990's and this is just a further progression of that. I find it funny that countries that had to fight for their freedom fight back against those seeking their freedom from their country.
Still, it's not a nice situation & I can only hope it gets resolved with as little bloodshed as possible. but with reports of up to 1,600 already killed, thats not looking likely.
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[QUOTE=Zytek_Fan;823819]Correct foreign policy as in willing to negotiate and not go in and blow shit up first.[/QUOTE]
I'd advocate for that method too...
[QUOTE=IBrake4Rainbows;823873]It's fairly typical of this region for breakaway republics to develop. southern Ossetia has been attempting a breakaway for what seems like an eternity - and to be honest, save for the economic requirements, I can't see why anyone would care.
The Balkans broke apart in the 1990's and this is just a further progression of that. I find it funny that countries that had to fight for their freedom fight back against those seeking their freedom from their country.
Still, it's not a nice situation & I can only hope it gets resolved with as little bloodshed as possible. but with reports of up to 1,600 already killed, thats not looking likely.[/QUOTE]
So South Ossetia belongs to Russia currently? So confused!
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I knew Kosovo wouldn't be the only thing.
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine;823790]Georgia == oil pipeline so dont' hold your breath for non-interventino :([/QUOTE]
as long as people demand more oil (more then ever),governments like Russia,USA and Europe have no choice but no to.Lets not forget China.
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[QUOTE=hec16;823852]In my opinion this is the beginning of the end[/QUOTE]
no my friend THE end is not going begin from Georgia,the beginning will start from Israel.
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[QUOTE=QuattroMan;823915]no my friend THE end is not going begin from Georgia,the beginning will start from Israel.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, ok...
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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FRtkek-Et4]YouTube - Primus - The Devil Went Down To Georgia[/url]
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[QUOTE=The_Canuck;823924]Yeah, ok...[/QUOTE]
yes my friend "MARK" my words,you'll see it in you lifetime guaranty you.;)
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[QUOTE]
Edit: This will probably be Russia's last chance to beat up Georgia before Georgia becomes a full fledged NATO member.[/QUOTE]
post taken from another site, as simplified as it is could there be some truth to it? is Russia trying to pull some imperialistic crap on Georgia before they become allied to NATO?
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[QUOTE=clutch-monkey;823954]post taken from another site, as simplified as it is could there be some truth to it? is Russia trying to pull some imperialistic crap on Georgia before they become allied to NATO?[/QUOTE]
Or maybe their trying to show Georgia that if they become a NATO member that the'll have problems in South Ossetia...
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[QUOTE=QuattroMan;823937]yes my friend "MARK" my words,you'll see it in you lifetime guaranty you.;)[/QUOTE]
How are you sure that it's not the Palestinians who crack first. ;)
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Yes, and Stalin is a Saint.
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Georgia..poor little country...big evil neighbour attacked them and is killing everyone... Guys, what channels do you watch? o_O Have you heard about Georgians killing Russian peacemakers in South Ossetia?
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Georgia is certainly as guilty of firing as the Russians and South Ossetians, but you have to question where you get your news from as well ;)
TBH i think Putin was just spoiling for a fight.
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[QUOTE=IBrake4Rainbows;823967]Georgia is certainly as guilty of firing as the Russians and South Ossetians, but you have to question where you get your news from as well ;)TBH i think Putin was just spoiling for a fight.[/QUOTE]
I try to compare different news :) .
BTW, Rapax, Stalin was Georgian ;)
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[QUOTE=faksta;823965]Georgia..poor little country...big evil neighbour attacked them and is killing everyone... Guys, what channels do you watch? o_O Have you heard about Georgians killing Russian peacemakers in South Ossetia?[/QUOTE]
you are right, according from MSNBC it was Georgia that attacked Russia,what a fools! I hope they get their @ss's kicked...
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[QUOTE=kingofthering;823959]How are you sure that it's not the Palestinians who crack first. ;)[/QUOTE]
with what?? stones and rocks??? Israel was Palestine my friend if you don't know that by now i don't know what to say.All i am saying Israel should give back the land that they took (murdered) from Palestine.Israel is worst than Turkey in 1915 killing Armenian's (1.5,000,000 of them) and took 80% of the land.
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[QUOTE=QuattroMan;824012]you are right, according from MSNBC it was Georgia that attacked Russia,what a fools! I hope they get their @ss's kicked...[/QUOTE]
It's sad you had to re-read the article to get things right, and lasttime i checked South Ossetia is still recognized as part of Georgia and therefore Georgian land. Apparently some of them are Russian citizens but it doesn't mean Georgia attacked Russia itself.
[QUOTE=QuattroMan;824015]with what?? stones and rocks??? [/QUOTE]
Exactly, you say Israel will be the end of the world, how can that be when they have no powerfull enemies?
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From what I read they didn't attack Russia itself but of course anybody in South Ossetia did feel the attack. I think Russia saw this coming and positioned themselves to get involved. That's why they handed out citizenship to people who continued to live in a foreign country.
But Georgia has what's coming to them though, from what I read the first day instead of going in and trying to take back the lands through occupation they fired rockets and such first. Which means they didn't really care about lives involved just as long as they take over the area. It's like if your country was in civil war and one side just decided to kill everybody no matter who they are that's on the other side. In which case I say let the Russians have their way with them.
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[QUOTE=The_Canuck;824029]It's sad you had to re-read the article to get things right, and
lasttime i checked South Ossetia is still recognized as part of Georgia and therefore Georgian land. Apparently some of them are Russian citizens but it doesn't mean Georgia attacked Russia itself.[/QUOTE]
ok! if my article that i got it from is wrong like you said it is,what article did you get it from?
Exactly, you say Israel will be the end of the world, how can that be when they have no powerfull enemies?[/QUOTE]
The name of that country is called Iran,with out America Israel is nothing and i wish we (USA) stay out of it and let Israel fight their own crap.
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[QUOTE=QuattroMan;824040]
The name of that country is called Iran,with out America Israel is nothing and i wish we (USA) stay out of it and let Israel fight their own crap.[/QUOTE]
Do you have any idea how much more powerfull Israel's military is over Iran?