...by buying an italian car. Because reliability is overrated and your life isn't really complete until you've experienced all sorts of nigling faults that other cars just don't have. It's a Lancia Delta 1-4 T-Jet Platino.
Printable View
...by buying an italian car. Because reliability is overrated and your life isn't really complete until you've experienced all sorts of nigling faults that other cars just don't have. It's a Lancia Delta 1-4 T-Jet Platino.
Thats quite an interesting design. Im assuming its part of a platform sharing system do you know what car it shares its underpinnings with?
Lovely colour by the way.
[quote=whiteballz;907330]Thats quite an interesting design. Im assuming its part of a platform sharing system do you know what car it shares its underpinnings with?
Lovely colour by the way.[/quote]
It's a posh Bravo.
EDIT I think you call it Ritmo.
[quote=Ferrer;907332]It's a posh Bravo.
EDIT I think you call it Ritmo.[/quote]
not Strada? (which was the name for the original Ritmo in the UK after Fiat found out that Ritmo was a condom brand...)
Nice car. Pity you didn't buy the JTD....
if it's the same engine as the punto T-jet i quite liked that one. that design is wierd though!
[quote=henk4;907333]not Strada? (which was the name for the original Ritmo in the UK after Fiat found out that Ritmo was a condom brand...)
Nice car. Pity you didn't buy the JTD....[/quote]
One diesel in the family is enough (we still have the 1er).
[quote=clutch-monkey;907334]if it's the same engine as the punto T-jet i quite liked that one. that design is wierd though![/quote]
It's the same engine as the Punto Abarth.
engine's great, car's quite ok too. i made about 1000 km with it, liked the seats, but i find the central console a bit tacky... quality also didn't live up to my expectations. but as an overall package i'll say it's good
[quote=dydzi;907345]engine's great, car's quite ok too. i made about 1000 km with it, liked the seats, but i find the central console a bit tacky... quality also didn't live up to my expectations. but as an overall package i'll say it's good[/quote]
Things that have gone wrong so far, in two months and 5200km of ownership:
-The handle from the sunroof cover fell off.
-The rear windscreen wiper scratches the glass even when it's wet.
-The front right speaker cover falls off.
-The windshield has two cracks on the bottom and nothing has hit it (We are taking it tomorrow to the dealer).
Ugly trying to pass itself off as premium design.....
I'm sorry to poo poo it, it's nicer than my car, but really.
Congratz, not my cup but a nice car non the less :)
1.4T = 150bhp?
Shame about the quality issues, my brava has been almost bullet proof, only old age problems really, you'd expect them to get better at car building has the years go by. :D
P.S. that colour shouts police car lol.
Yes it's the 150bhp version.
I know it's not a drivers car, but we are pretty well sorted of those now. This is just a practical vehicle to move people and stuff around easily and comfortably. It's even moderately fast in straight line.
A review will be coming later.
I would have never considered you one to settle for mediocrity.
Please tell me it was cheap.
[quote=IBrake4Rainbows;907375]I would have never considered you one to settle for mediocrity.
Please tell me it was cheap.[/quote]
I wouldn't call it mediocre. Just not suited to g-forces and sideways action.
And yes, it was cheap. In fact I did something I never do, buy it from the first showroom we visited. The offer was [I]that[/I] good.
Aren't cars for driving though? surely you know about the excitement and passion involved in buying a car, even if it is just a family runabout.
the opportunity was there to have so much more. They better have thrown in a set of steak knives or something.
as strange as it sounds I cant help but think the front of the car looks like a ferret in a wind tunnel.
[IMG]http://www.peacockshock.com/archives/cute%20ferret-thumb.jpg[/IMG]
Only like this
[IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2810293104_793afc12f3.jpg?v=0[/IMG]
[quote=IBrake4Rainbows;907379]Aren't cars for driving though? surely you know about the excitement and passion involved in buying a car, even if it is just a family runabout.
the opportunity was there to have so much more. They better have thrown in a set of steak knives or something.[/quote]
Well we've got a V8 Jag, a supercharged Mini and a cramped rear driver.
I would've never bought it if we only had the Delta.
it's such a poor relation in comparison :p
It's like Clutch Monkey's 323 Astina. Compared to two porsches, a Triumph and an Original Mini Cooper.
Cool choice. I've been looking at italian cars as well the last few weeks (I am car shopping at the moment). Namely the MiTo and the Fiat 500. Unfortunately they have zero resale value meaning that I can't get them. I'm buying one on a renting (sort of leasing without the service, tyres etc included) and the low resale value makes for some huge monthly prices.
Example: Fiat 500 1.4: €282 every month. Mini One D: €226. While the Mini is a good €5000 more expensive! But the resale value is huge. Same issue with the MiTo.
[/rant]
Too bad the Delta isn't really selling... The current generation Fiat platforms are great.
[quote=IBrake4Rainbows;907383]it's such a poor relation in comparison :p
It's like Clutch Monkey's 323 Astina. Compared to two porsches, a Triumph and an Original Mini Cooper.[/quote]
steering and handling is still better than the replacement honda jazz..
i can see where ferrer's coming from with this. it's nice to have car you don't have to care about so much, that can fit a lot of stuff inside.
[quote=Lagonda;907390]Cool choice. I've been looking at italian cars as well the last few weeks (I am car shopping at the moment). Namely the MiTo and the Fiat 500. Unfortunately they have zero resale value meaning that I can't get them. I'm buying one on a renting (sort of leasing without the service, tyres etc included) and the low resale value makes for some huge monthly prices.
Example: Fiat 500 1.4: €282 every month. Mini One D: €226. While the Mini is a good €5000 more expensive! But the resale value is huge. Same issue with the MiTo.
[/rant]
Too bad the Delta isn't really selling... The current generation Fiat platforms are great.[/quote]
That's why we are [I]leasing[/I] the BMW but bought the Delta. In fact the Delta was in stock and came with a huge discount, so it could not be leased.
The 500 would be an excellent choice for a city car. the Toyota iQ or the Mazda 2 would be 2 other interesting options.
[quote=clutch-monkey;907391]steering and handling is still better than the replacement honda jazz..
i can see where ferrer's coming from with this. it's nice to have car you don't have to care about so much, that can fit a lot of stuff inside.[/quote]
Exactly it's the [I]appliance[/I], if you want.
(Can't believe I'm saying that about a car... :o)
After all the countless rants about modern Lancia and its ineffective management by Fiat, you go out and buy the first Lancia you see?
Pfff....You are not exactly the man of principle, Albert.
And then you try to excuse yourself by calling it "appliance"?
Not cool at all, my friend. Open up your heart and welcome the wonderful experience of owning an Italian car. The car is absolutely fabulous, I'm jealous for one. Top notch choice, congrats!
Oh, and about the rear screen wiper. Be a man and buy a replacement blade rubber instead of playing a victim of horrible Fiat Auto.
Lancia has been on a resurgence lately, at least until the financial and economic crisis broke out. There have been many changes, both big and small, underwent by the small brand from Torino, but the Delta is the first brand new product for them since the introduction of the Musa mini MPV in 2004. I've personally never thought that calling it the Delta was a sensible idea, because everyone associates the name with flame spitting Integrales. And as we'll see this cares shares nothing them.
But let's start on the outside. This new car from Lancia is a bit of a segment buster, being bigger than the average C-segment hatchback but not quite as large as traditional mid size liftbacks. It shares its platform with the Fiat Bravo, but benefits from a 100mm longer wheelbase. That means there's plenty of space inside and in the boot. Rear headroom is compromised by the high seating position and the panoramic sunroof and can be a problem for people over 1.85m. In the front space is ample though, and the cabin has a very airy feel. The driving position sits between a normal hatchback and an MPV. You sit quite high up, even in the lowest seating position and some controls can be a bit of a stretch. It errs more on the comfy side than on the sporty one. The fit and finish is correct, but in that aspect Lancia still have a long way to go to stay with the leaders. Nothing too colossal, but there are plenty of little foibles. Some of the controls can be a bit fussy, but ergonomically it's correct too. A big fault though, is the fact that you can't engage high beam if the headlamps are in auto mode, which can be a bit annoying at night. You can only put the high beams on if you've manually turned your headlamps on
Under the bonnet this car has the 1368cc turbocharged four cylinder engine shared between several cars from the Fiat Group. It is undoubtedly one of the best assets of the car. It develops 150bhp, there's little to no lag and it pulls strongly until the redline arrives at 6000rpm. In gear acceleration is correct even in sixth from 90km/h. If anything the turbo whistle is a bit at odds with the character of the car. It also is very sensitive to the way you drive. If treated carefully you could do up to 800km on the 58 litre tank, but as soon as you start driving like an Italian would fuel consumption can go up to 15l/100km or more. The gearbox is a smooth shifting 6 speed manual with a light clutch which is very manageable at moderate speeds. Rush it, and it all starts to go a bit wrong, especially with the clutch which has a too long travel for my tastes. One of the things that annoy me the most is the hill-holder device which basically prevents the car from rolling back in a hill. It doesn't work, it makes launching the car more difficult and jerky and frankly if you can't start your car on a hill you shouldn't be driving a manual car.
Once on the move the car feels most at ease on the motorways and roads with fast and open corners. There, thanks to the long wheelbase, it has excellent straight line stability even at high speeds. The ride is comfortable as well as the seats and it's very quiet, except for a bit of wind noise around the mirrors, so it's a fine mile eater. As soon as things get twisty however, the Delta's deficiencies are clearly exposed. The steering is basically dead and the good ride means that body control is not as good as it should. Push it hard and it feels reluctant and cumbersome at the limit with plenty of understeer to boot. It's not a car that give you confidence to explore the limits and it never feels at ease there. Brakes are excellent though, and there's plenty of grip from 225/45 tires.
In the end it's not a car in which to enjoy the fine art of driving. It's a car that takes you to places rather than being you who drives it there. It's a nice useful car from an almost dead manufacturer, but Lancia still has to work hard and still has a long way to properly achieve premium status.
[quote=Ferrer;907398]
Once on the move the car feels most at ease on the motorways and roads with fast and open corners. There, thanks to the long wheelbase, it has excellent straight line stability even at high speeds.[/quote]
Ha,Ha, Ha,....long wheelbase....Albert, the operative word is front wheel drive, but it is hardly popular to use that, as it is synomous to non sporty etc,etc,etc. (saw the Mini race at the Revival yesterday, they were all FWD and lots of fun)
[quote=Revo;907397]After all the countless rants about modern Lancia and its ineffective management by Fiat, you go out and buy the first Lancia you see?
Pfff....You are not exactly the man of principle, Albert.
And then you try to excuse yourself by calling it "appliance"?
Not cool at all, my friend. Open up your heart and welcome the wonderful experience of owning an Italian car. The car is absolutely fabulous, I'm jealous for one. Top notch choice, congrats!
Oh, and about the rear screen wiper. Be a man and buy a replacement blade rubber instead of playing a victim of horrible Fiat Auto.[/quote]
We had to buy a practical, relatively inexpensive, big(ish) car. It was Golf or this basically. So I pushed for a Lancia. After all I was always talking about italian this and italian that, so I thought well let's put the money where the mouth is. And so we had the big Lancia.
I was never expecting it to be a serious driver's car. I knew what I was into. So taking that into account, yes it's a good car, if not perfect. I'm happy with it and it has very neat touches. The detailing for instance is exquisite, especially on the outside. And the engine is a litte 1400cc gem.
But it's not the car I'll take when I want to enjoy everything that great about cars. I agree appliance it's too harsh of a term, I mean this is no silly Toyota or anything, but as a Lancia I don't know it's missing something perhaps.
Don't get me wrong it is a good car. It does what it is supposed to do. But when I get into the Jag or the Mini, those cars stir my blood. This doesn't somewhat. It's probably my fault though, I'm not used to such cars, after all the last non-drivers car that I drove was a 1998 Mk I Megane Scenic, and that was very long ago.
Give me time, maybe I'll come to love it. :)
[quote=henk4;907399]Ha,Ha, Ha,....long wheelbase....Albert, the operative word is front wheel drive, but it is hardly popular to use that, as it is synomous to non sporty etc,etc,etc. (saw the Mini race at the Revival yesterday, they were all FWD and lots of fun)[/quote]
Mmmm... no.
The Mini is front wheel drive (the new one I mean) and that'll easily make you crash into a tree backwards. On the other hand the rear drive BMW and Jag are very stable too, much more than the shorter wheelbase Mini.
[quote=Ferrer;907400]We had to buy a practical, relatively inexpensive, big(ish) car. It was Golf or this basically. So I pushed for a Lancia. After all I was always talking about italian this and italian that, so I thought well let's put the money where the mouth is. And so we had the big Lancia.
I was never expecting it to be a serious driver's car. I knew what I was into. So taking that into account, yes it's a good car, if not perfect. I'm happy with it and it has very neat touches. The detailing for instance is exquisite, especially on the outside. And the engine is a litte 1400cc gem.
But it's not the car I'll take when I want to enjoy everything that great about cars. I agree appliance it's too harsh of a term, I mean this is no silly Toyota or anything, but as a Lancia I don't know it's missing something perhaps.
Don't get me wrong it is a good car. It does what it is supposed to do. But when I get into the Jag or the Mini, those cars stir my blood. This doesn't somewhat. It's probably my fault though, I'm not used to such cars, after all the last non-drivers car that I drove was a 1998 Mk I Megane Scenic, and that was very long ago.
Give me time, maybe I'll come to love it. :)[/quote]
Repeat after me - [I]I drive Lancia. I drive Lancia. I own Lancia. I own Lancia[/I].
Sounds fantastic, doesn't it? :)
There are too few Italian car owners here and when finally someone gets one and calls it appliance - well, THAT stirred my blood. Hence my bittersweet comment.
So, welcome to the club and more importantly - now you are fully entitled to comment about the Italian matters. Because you got one.:cool:
Btw, the model should have been called Gamma IMO, suits car's personality so much better than larger-than-life Delta brand...
[quote=Revo;907407]Repeat after me - [I]I drive Lancia. I drive Lancia. I own Lancia. I own Lancia[/I].
Sounds fantastic, doesn't it? :)
There are too few Italian car owners here and when finally someone gets one and calls it appliance - well, THAT stirred my blood. Hence my bittersweet comment.
So, welcome to the club and more importantly - now you are fully entitled to comment about the Italian matters. Because you got one.:cool:
Btw, the model should have been called Gamma IMO, suits car's personality so much better than larger-than-life Delta brand...[/quote]
You know what? Even with all its faults, I'm very proud of having a Lancia (finally). Now I want more... :p
I know appliance was out of place, I'm sorry for that. :)
Just came to know...congrats man!
About the quality...our Croma has some smaller issues on the assembly of the interior, like the driver's visor (as on the Stilo...), and other minor things.
The ride is excellent, the car is comfortable, the fuel consumption is good and the storage is massive. It wasn't exactly cheap (35K fully loaded iirc), but when I tried the X3 2.0i of a friend, well...
That Bimmer had a very poor interior, the steering wheel was loosing the superficial treatement, the car was noise and vibrations were perceivable (on a petrol car). Irrc he payed it 40k, with a few options and and LPG system (which is taking away basically all the boot's volume).
I know the X3 isn't the best way to enter the BMW world, still the Croma, which isn't perfect, won hands down in my book.
Enjoy the Italian Lady, and don't complain!
I'm sure you'll like it a lot. :)
[quote=Ferrer;907401]Mmmm... no.
The Mini is front wheel drive (the new one I mean) and that'll easily make you crash into a tree backwards. On the other hand the rear drive BMW and Jag are very stable too, much more than the shorter wheelbase Mini.[/quote]
You were talking about straight line stability. not the lift off oversteer thing that a Mini causes to flip. In the past motor magazines (and TV programmes) used to test the sensibility to lateral winds by having the car run past enormous fans with the steering locked. Pity they don't do that anymore, as it would for instance also show that the "stable" BMW will be blown mightily further off course than the Lancia. (but of course the BMW has 4 cm less wheelbase..)
[quote=henk4;907414]You were talking about straight line stability. not the lift off oversteer thing that a Mini causes to flip. In the past motor magazines (and TV programmes) used to test the sensibility to lateral winds by having the car run past enormous fans with the steering locked. Pity they don't do that anymore, as it would for instance also show that the "stable" BMW will be blown mightily further off course than the Lancia. (but of course the BMW has 4 cm less wheelbase..)[/quote]
What I acutally meant is that the Lancia is very suited to being a high speed cruiser because it's very stable and rarely deviates from the line you pointe with the steering wheel. The Mini on the other hand is like an accident waiting happen. A lot of fun in twisty roads, not so much in the highway.
I guess it was my wrongly worded sentence which caused the confusion.
[quote=Ferrer;907415]What I acutally meant is that the Lancia is very suited to being a high speed cruiser because it's very stable and rarely deviates from the line you pointe with the steering wheel. The Mini on the other hand is like an accident waiting happen. A lot of fun in twisty roads, not so much in the highway.
I guess it was my wrongly worded sentence which caused the confusion.[/quote]
Probably BMW intended the Mini to behave as a RWD car...
The cruiser aspect is the main advantage of FWD, but cruising is not considered cool, so FWD tends to be discarded in certain circles.
(PS, from my choice of cars you will understand that I rate (comfy) cruising very highly)
[quote=henk4;907424]Probably BMW intended the Mini to behave as a RWD car...
The cruiser aspect is the main advantage of FWD, but cruising is not considered cool, so FWD tends to be discarded in certain circles.
(PS, from my choice of cars you will understand that I rate (comfy) cruising very highly)[/quote]
I like cruising as long as I can a) lay my hands on something else to have fun or b) the car can do both.
By the way this afternoon I've found out what was wrong with the car.
It was... me. I was driving it all wrong. I was changing gear at 2000rpm. And then I discovered that what I should actually be doing is never letting the engine fall below 2000rpm. In other words I should drive it like an italian. And all of a sudden the car came alive and something surprising happened. It made me smile. :)
[quote=Ferrer;907458] It made me smile. :)[/quote]
and as you indicated earlier, the Repsol guys are smiling with you....
[quote=henk4;907459]and as you indicated earlier, the Repsol guys are smiling with you....[/quote]
Hahaha. True. But it was so worth it. :)
[quote=Ferrer;907458]It was... me. I was driving it all wrong. I was changing gear at 2000rpm. And then I discovered that what I should actually be doing is never letting the engine fall below 2000rpm. In other words I should drive it like an italian. And all of a sudden the car came alive and something surprising happened. It made me smile. :)[/quote]
Life begins at 4000 rpm ;)
You're getting close to becoming an "enlightened master" degree!
Isn't the chassis still flobbery regardless of the revs?
With fuel economy like 15l/100km, good straight line characteristics, and an underwhelming chassis I think you are seeing the muscle-car residue from GM ownership.
Suffice to say, if you ever miss RWD, you can always drive backwards.
[quote=f6fhellcat13;907463]Isn't the chassis still flobbery regardless of the revs?
With fuel economy like 15l/100km, good straight line characteristics, and an underwhelming chassis I think you are seeing the muscle-car residue from GM ownership.
Suffice to say, if you ever miss RWD, you can always drive backwards.[/quote]
I will maintain, it is not a drivers car. At the limit the car still suffers. And as I said if I only had one car I wouldn't have it.
But, what it does, it does it well. And that italianness, it really is there. You have to dig deep and it's not obvious and tangible, but it's there alright.
If I manage to enjoy the Stilo, the Delta should be like a dream.
Besides, I think the idea of the good old [I]Guido[/I] should change, the times when Italian knew how to drive and to drive fast as well is gone.
I can't really think of them (ehm, [I]us[/I]) and a country of drivers.
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;907470]If I manage to enjoy the Stilo, the Delta should be like a dream.
Besides, I think the idea of the good old [I]Guido[/I] should change, the times when Italian knew how to drive and to drive fast as well is gone.
I can't really think of them (ehm, [I]us[/I]) and a country of drivers.[/quote]
It's the style of driving rather than driving very fast. Even at moderate speeds it can make you smile, just so long as you drive the italian way. Never let it go below 2000rpm and change at 3500-4000rpm and the car feels alive and eager.
It's curious because this car is very very different to the BMW. In the 1er within 100 yards you know it's gonna be great, everything feels right. In the Delta it's no so perfect, but it's got charm.
Charm is something that very difficult to explain, and very difficult to achieve. But it's something that can make up for some engineering shortfalls. I know it sound like I'm trying to make up some excuses for it, but no. I reckon the Delta isn't perfect and there's some in which the car can be improved greatly. But, it has something other cars don't have.
Now make a bit more driver oriented, and I'm completely sold. :)