Mini AWD in 2008

Mini will be launching several variations of the popular small car over the next five years, including the possibility of cars fitted with a new AWD system being developed for the upcoming Clubman/Countryman. German magazine Auto Motor und Sport has published the statement, “an all-wheel drive system will be available in 2008 for all models,” at the end of an article about the new stretched Mini in its latest issue.

It would make sense that if an AWD system was developed for the R56 based Clubman, it could be transferred to Mini’s other models but we’re still not sure of this. During a recent interview with several Mini executives, fan site Motoring File were told “there will be an important new production every year for the next four to five years.” This could mean AWD models or even the possibility of a performance division.

Source:

[url]http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/mini/all-2008-minis-getting-awd-option/[/url]

[url]http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/02/08/report-bmw-to-offer-all-wheel-drive-mini-in-2008/[/url]

Pointless, in my opinion.

I happen to like this idea...I think it'd keep more SUV's out of the wrong hands (soccer moms on cell phones). If I'm not doing off-roading, I'd much rather have a smaller car for the inclement weather than an SUV. AWD handles inclement weather better than 4x4, too. Leave SUV's to the big boys, and please give us straight axles back instead of the independent front and rear sissification they're all getting now :p

[QUOTE=Ferrer]Pointless, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
i agree. it can only add more wieght to the already portly mini.

[QUOTE=clutch-monkey]i agree. it can only add more wieght to the already portly mini.[/QUOTE]
And reduce the boot to none at all, increase the fuel consumption, reduce the perfomance...

The Mini already already is good handling car, leave it as is.

[QUOTE=jcp123]and please give us straight axles back instead of the independent front and rear sissification they're all getting now :p[/QUOTE]
a multi-link suspension allows better ride and handling. why do you want torsion beams, thats what the UK civic is criticised for.

[QUOTE=jediali]a multi-link suspension allows better ride and handling. why do you want torsion beams, thats what the UK civic is criticised for.[/QUOTE]
I think he was refering to SUVs.

[QUOTE=jcp123]I happen to like this idea...I think it'd keep more SUV's out of the wrong hands (soccer moms on cell phones). If I'm not doing off-roading, I'd much rather have a smaller car for the inclement weather than an SUV. AWD handles inclement weather better than 4x4, too. Leave SUV's to the big boys, and please give us straight axles back instead of the independent front and rear sissification they're all getting now :p[/QUOTE]
ok gotcha - sorry. I sort of agree too. The dedicated choice is live coil sprung axles. The disco/rrs platform has pretty cever double wishbones all round - It was the only way it could compete with the competition.

[QUOTE=jcp123]Leave SUV's to the big boys, and please give us straight axles back instead of the independent front and rear sissification they're all getting now :p[/QUOTE]
The kind of all-independant sissification as seen in military vehicles like (Oz Army) ASLAVs & Bushmasters, the Hummer H1, Pingauzer, Haflinger, Austin Champ etc? :p

[QUOTE=nota]The kind of all-independant sissification as seen in military vehicles like (Oz Army) ASLAVs & Bushmasters, the Hummer H1, Pingauzer, Haflinger, Austin Champ etc? :p[/QUOTE]

You're quite right, it can work, and those vehicles prove it. But: most automakers aren't going to bother to put that kind of effort into it. Look at what Chevy or Ford is putting on its 4x4's these days...not the stuff of legend. At least Ford's old Twin I-Beam front was a decent compromise, but you still see a lot of guys building these with solid axle swaps.

I know what you mean jcp, was just enjoying having a cheap random shot at ya mate ;)

I've had a couple of Effo's (F-series) myself, both I-Beam and non so I'm not unpartial to 'em either. Twin I-Beam was a novel compromise but I think I've already mentioned to you of the tendancy in certain conditions for them to pop their coil springs clean out of the chassis :eek: this happened to a mate of mine at 70mph

[/back to awd Minis] :D

An AWD mini would make an awesome rally car... if a bit small.

[quote=h00t_h00t]An AWD mini would make an awesome rally car... if a bit small.[/quote]Only if it had controllable diffs.
Remember that an AWD tends to understeer on the rough stuff.
And with such a short wheelbase it's debatable whether you could successfully flick it on entry for fast exit.
Think 6R4 with the engine in the wrong place :D --- unless they are going to do a Clio rip-off :D hmmmmmmm I like it already :D

Would be interesting to see how they would deliver it.
I've always wondered if anyone was taking Yamaha's solution fro 2WD off-road motorbike and apply it to cars :D

[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]
I've always wondered if anyone was taking Yamaha's solution fro 2WD off-road motorbike and apply it to cars :D[/QUOTE]
What was the Yamaha solution?

Actually, they're thinking about a new Moke. Take a look at the new Motortrend, Future Shock. I think it looks horrible.

[QUOTE=nota]What was the Yamaha solution?[/QUOTE]
Well it was a hydraulic system that runs from the tranny at the back to front, down the centre of the forks and then drives the front wheel IIRC. Not sure what that would do to a Mini :confused:

But a mid-rear engined Mini...:D

[QUOTE=2ndclasscitizen]Well it was a hydraulic system that runs from the tranny at the back to front, down the centre of the forks and then drives the front wheel IIRC. [/QUOTE]
Ah thanks for that - you mean hydrostatic drive

I remembered reading on a webpage about a similar-ish 2WD aussie-designed bike the Drysdale 2x2x2 so named because this one also features two wheel steering! Here it is and its quite an informative website :)

Patents
[url]http://www.werple.net.au/~iwd/2x2x2/patents/index.html[/url]

Drive impressions
[url]http://www.werple.net.au/~iwd/2x2x2/ride/index.html[/url]

(you might recall its the same bloke who makes that beautiful Drysdale V8 motorcycle, also found through the website along with a 200hp car that weighs 320kg!)

Current Mimis are FWD?

[QUOTE=digitalcraft]Current Mimis are FWD?[/QUOTE]
thats a joke right? A shaft will run perpendicularly from the existing transverse differential casing to the rear axle, just like most other systems i imagine...:rolleyes:

It's not a joke! Why would I pay attention to Minis???:confused:

[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]Only if it had controllable diffs.
Remember that an AWD tends to understeer on the rough stuff.
And with such a short wheelbase it's debatable whether you could successfully flick it on entry for fast exit.
Think 6R4 with the engine in the wrong place :D --- unless they are going to do a Clio rip-off :D hmmmmmmm I like it already :D[/QUOTE] I'm sure it would be a simple problem to fix, WRC cars can have controlable diffs (but can't be active like in an Evo/Skyline etc) so it could run with a perminantly rear bias. Add to that stripping the car below the minimum weight, which should be that hard in such a small car, and then using ballast to adjust the car's weight distribution.

The Peugeot 206 was quite small compared to the other WRC cars and that did quite well IIRC, so did the Audi S2 Quattro with its shortened wheel base and that was front engine too wasn't it?

the audi S2 was about as front engined as you get

[quote=h00t_h00t]The Peugeot 206 was quite small compared to the other WRC cars and that did quite well IIRC, so did the Audi S2 Quattro with its shortened wheel base and that was front engine too wasn't it?[/quote]
Fast but ALWAYS very quick to bite for the simplest slip in concentration by the driver.
Try and find pics of the GroupB drivers at the end of stages and events.
They were sweating and VERY fatigued.
It was 100% the whole way.

But comparing WRC £200,000++ cars with solutions that could feasibly be provide in a production car isn't really fair :D

The short wheelbase allowed drivers to USE the instability to get higher speeds. Kind of like modern fighter planes which are designed to be UNstable in flight and then use computers to keep them in the air. Just that with the cars the only computer was the driver !!!!

I'm sure they could do a Mini for the soccer moms, but not a real performance 4x4. So why bother ?
I also dont' see them managing to get a propshaft down the centre and find the space for a diff without seriously compromising the interior -- kind of like the Clio V6 :) Hence why I thought applying hydraulic drive to each wheel could be accomodated and "interesting" :D

getrag made their first awd system, and in order to test it they installed it in a mk1 new mini. the performance of it was astounding. made the power delivery much better, since the mini will happily go with no traction for its first few gears.

as the last i have heard, there are no plans on making a super high performance awd mini. they are to put it on the traveler and slightly lifted mini ala outback/allroad/etc. but everyone is hoping for a works gp style with awd and 250-300 hp.

[QUOTE=nota;666484]I know what you mean jcp, was just enjoying having a cheap random shot at ya mate ;)
:D[/QUOTE]

No worries bud :cool:

[QUOTE=jediali;666951]the audi S2 was about as front engined as you get[/QUOTE]

I think most Audi's are as front engined as you can get;)

[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine;666952]Fast but ALWAYS very quick to bite for the simplest slip in concentration by the driver.
Try and find pics of the GroupB drivers at the end of stages and events.
They were sweating and VERY fatigued.
It was 100% the whole way.[/QUOTE]

In that case it should be forced into rallying, it might bring back some of the "spark" it used to have.

[QUOTE=h00t_h00t;667981]In that case it should be forced into rallying, it might bring back some of the "spark" it used to have.[/QUOTE]

Monte Carlo in 2009!!!! The legend will be back.

[QUOTE=Waugh-terfall;667972]I think most Audi's are as front engined as you can get;)[/QUOTE]
Except for the R8... ;)
[QUOTE=h00t_h00t;667981]In that case it should be forced into rallying, it might bring back some of the "spark" it used to have.[/QUOTE]
I think the car doesn't comply with the regulations, if I'm not mistaken WRC cars have to be at least 4000mm long in order to be eligible.

What about the estate version?

[QUOTE=2ndclasscitizen;668033]What about the estate version?[/QUOTE]
Could do, but I guess there could be rigidity problems with the suicide doors, altough they could weld them, just like they did with the roof of the 307 CC. However there are two problems I can think of. First Mini has no suitable 2-litre engine, and I doubt BMW engines can be homologated and secondly the risk is too big for Mini, if the car isn't a sure winner from the start its image could suffer badly. Seeing its good sales I doubt the investment would pay off.

[QUOTE=Ferrer;668019]Except for the R8... ;)[/QUOTE]

HAHA yeah, Most excludes the R8. Come to think of the Rosemeyer concept was rear engined to and the R8/R10 LeMans Racers.


And yeah, I think the Mini Traveller would be a bad idea. I think it'd make the Mini name to widely spred, when you hear Mini you think caracterful little 3dr that whines, Well, I do anyway. I don't hear Mini and go hmm, estates are nice. Though a return to rallying from Mini would be pretty cool.

[QUOTE=Waugh-terfall;668330]And yeah, I think the Mini Traveller would be a bad idea. I think it'd make the Mini name to widely spred, when you hear Mini you think caracterful little 3dr that whines, Well, I do anyway. I don't hear Mini and go hmm, estates are nice. Though a return to rallying from Mini would be pretty cool.[/QUOTE]
I have always thought the Mini would have made for a good privateers S1600 car, a bit like the coll and quirky alternative but without a factory support (thus limiting the impact if things didn't go well). However as S1600 cars have all but disappeared from rallying, I guess there's no suitable category for the Mini.

A UK well-respected rally prep team ( can#t remember right now which one ) undertook a project to modify the Mini for rallying. They had to custom design front shocks and suspension components and then heard nothing else about it. So I guess it ddint' work out very well at all :(