Easy enough. Go on, put some strong arguments to help me make up my mind.
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Easy enough. Go on, put some strong arguments to help me make up my mind.
Good value for money, usually cheap to run.
Reliable :)
Top class engineering
Value for money
a bit "boring" :(
Drive & engine!
Resale value. Not that you want to think about selling a car you haven't even bought yet, but it shows how well they hold up. And most Honda's aren't babied either. Get a new one and it should last you until you need it to.
Of all the Honda's we've had, no real complaints. Only a Civic by brother had had no torque. So, unless you like wringing your car's neck, stay away from their smallest fours.:D
And all the other listed reasons.
They make cool adverts
(sorry we've never owned a Honda!)
Strong revvy engines. Not expensive to buy or run. Fun with reliability. They're usually light and not too complicated. Not sure if that applies to the latest models, though.
What I dislike: image usually associated to them. Design that isn't that nice, exceptions made to their legendary sports cars (S800, S2000, NSX).
Interiors: used to be the same boring japanese dark design. Now they're going a bit too extroverted and messy.
Anyway, I never heard about a Honda that could be considered a bad business.
Although it happens at a small rpm band, their VTEC engines make some big power numbers for their displacement. They give the best of both worlds, economy and fuel efficiency when u need it, and power and fun when u want it. Plus the handle really well too.
They make great paper weights. :D
reliable, and fun
Its the Mcdonalds of cars.. love it or hate it. Everybody knows it.
- Great reliability (is there any manufacturer out there better?)
- Great engines (fuel efficient in class, yet powerful)
- Quality materials (I don't know why my parents chose the Accord over the Camry but I remember for sure, they chose it over the Altima because the Altima has poor-quality plastics)
- Surprisingly cheap for the amount of stuff you get
Yes, I know the cars are a bit bland and boring but still awesome cars overall. I'm really trying to get my parents to get a 2006 Civic Coupe (so I may drive it around :p )
No need to ask us, Honda's are consistently rated at the top of every consumer report (JE Edwards et al). Very well made cars. They age very well all around. As a result there is always demand and their prices reflect that.
My mom and my sister both have Civics. No trouble at all for them. I'm getting one now if I manage to find the right one; then we'll be a Honda (happy) family. :D
my family has nothing other than hondas. we had an '85 civic that we gave to my aunt who still drives it (its got over 250k miles and still goes like a champ), now we have 3 civics ('93, '94, and '95 i believe) and they are extremely cheap to run and get great mileage. if you treat them right, they'll last forever. i drove the '94 (that we got new way back when) for 2 years, never did anything stupid with it, and i'd average around 33 mpg and nothing ever needed replacing except oil changes. now my mom's got the crv which i personally don't like, but she loves it. its awkward to drive with long legs because you have to control the clutch with your knee instead of your ankle, thats all i really have against it. and my dad's got an acura (honda) rsx-s that we all love.
basically hondas are inexpensive cars that tend to lead their classes and last forever while still being attractive and something you can be proud of. they're also very environmentally friendly and aren't afraid to try something new (insight) or go somewhere they shouldn't (ridgeline).
I like hondas because they go fast when you put on a Type R badge.
Ok, that's enough screwing around for me today, back to seriousness. In all honesty, I have something against hondas. They're great cars, for their reliability, efficiency, and cost.... but I just can't stand them.
I like Honda for it's innovative VTEC technology which allows power along with fuel efficiency. Those two usually don't go together in cars, you either have one or the other. However, all of you guys are forgetting all the other products besides cars: Honda has its roots in motorcycles, you can't forget about that! They also make jet skis, generators, lawn mowers and maybe even private jets! Their cars I've always liked and my family does too. My father is a mechanic and he prefers fixing Hondas. He says that their products are very ergonomic and reliable.
[QUOTE=Zorlox]we had an '85 civic that we gave to my aunt who still drives it (its got over 250k miles and still goes like a champ)[/QUOTE]
My father has an '83 Accord with 180,000 miles.
to anyone that says Hondas are boring:
NSX - Yes that was boring
New Civic - Because it is Bland (the other day i saw a new civicon optional wheels parked next to a CLS 55 AMG, and the Civic was getting more asttention!)
[QUOTE=Jakg]to anyone that says Hondas are boring:
NSX - Yes that was boring
New Civic - Because it is Bland (the other day i saw a new civicon optional wheels parked next to a CLS 55 AMG, and the Civic was getting more asttention!)[/QUOTE]
Other than the NSX and S2000, Hondas are pretty lame.
I like them, they make great daily drivers with the Civic and Accord.
[QUOTE=Slicks]Other than the NSX and S2000, Hondas are pretty lame.[/QUOTE]
there not neccesarily a performance brand, the ridgeline is getting great acclaim, their cars are solid and have good handling plus they have some pretty good styling. hope the new NSX replacement will be good.
[QUOTE=Slicks]Other than the NSX and S2000, Hondas are pretty lame.[/QUOTE]
Same can be said about almost any other manufacturer IMO... Other than the Vette and the uhmmm, well, just the Vette, Chevys are pretty lame ;) Other than EVOs & 3000GTs, Mitsus are pretty lame etc...
[QUOTE]Why do you like Honda?[/QUOTE]
Strong R & D. Excellent cars / engines, good reliability. They participate in highly ranked competitions such as Formula 1 and JGTC.
Honda keeps growing and winning market share worldwide thanks to its reputation.
[IMG]http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8489/5608typerproject51nx.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Niko_Fx]Same can be said about almost any other manufacturer IMO... Other than the Vette and the uhmmm, well, just the Vette, Chevys are pretty lame ;) Other than EVOs & 3000GTs, Mitsus are pretty lame etc...
[/quote]
True true.
Hmmm....well, I did own a pretty respectable one at 1 time.
They are pretty good cars considering the Civic Si has been raking in the good reviews and beat a John Cooper Works Cooper S in an all-around review.
Well my sister has a civic, don't expect to be testing your zero to a hundred times in it, but it isn't a bad car at all. Runs quite, it does have a very "homely" feel to the interior. The car isn't old enough to know about reliability but that's Honda's legacy. The car in my opinion has stronger engines then the corolla, it's main competitor and the suspension makes the ride comfortable. They're easy to drive, small and effortless. Go Honda!
[QUOTE=sunk]Easy enough. Go on, put some strong arguments to help me make up my mind.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know I liked them for start... haha, pracitcal? :D
Ignoring the low cost, honda still has some of the most advanced technology packed into its cars. VTEC, although worshiped by some ricers as an all powerfull turbo replacement, is a serious peice of technology that allows its small displacement four-bangers to fire out decent torque, stunning horsepower, and still have respectable gas milage. Im almost ashmamed to think that GM is still selling push-rod (or should i say "high value" or "cam-in-block" engines, w/e their calling it now) engines in its cars when honda has made DOHC VTEC engines not only reliable, but available for under $20k. I still can't understand how GM claims its push rods are more reliable and economics when honda continues to fire out suburb automobiles that do what GM never could... make money.
[QUOTE=SLoppYJeeP]Ignoring the low cost, honda still has some of the most advanced technology packed into its cars. VTEC, although worshiped by some ricers as an all powerfull turbo replacement, is a serious peice of technology that allows its small displacement four-bangers to fire out decent torque, stunning horsepower, and still have respectable gas milage. Im almost ashmamed to think that GM is still selling push-rod (or should i say "high value" or "cam-in-block" engines, w/e their calling it now) engines in its cars when honda has made DOHC VTEC engines not only reliable, but available for under $20k. I still can't understand how GM claims its push rods are more reliable and economics when honda continues to fire out suburb automobiles that do what GM never could... make money.[/QUOTE]
Here comes another ohv vs ohc flame war...
All of GMs inline engines are OHC. Most of GMs V6 are OHC.
Their V8s are OHV for a good reason.
For how many times this has been talked about I hope to god you know. The LSx engine are remarkable in themselves.
Very simple, very reliable, and very cheap (a new 400hp LS2 can be bought for about $5,000).
Weighing in at just 385lbs, DOHC V8s could only wish of being so light without using exotic and very expencive materials.
And thanks to being OHV they are very small, comparable in size to V6s.
Take a looks at this LS1 on the left, 1.6L I4 from the Miata on the right:
[img]http://www.vorshlag.com/pictures/BothFront.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.vorshlag.com/pictures/BothRight.jpg[/img]
The LS1 is smaller than any DOHC V8 on the market to my knowledge (yes its smaller than the Lexus V8 too).
And if they're so "low tech" why do so many people swap their engines for them? RX7s, Miatas, M3s, you name it.
Personally I woudlnt be cought dead with a Honda engine, every driven one? The very definition of peaky, its turbo lag with no turbo power, to top things off all of their I4s sound like weedwakers on steroids.
[quote=Slicks]Here comes another ohv vs ohc flame war.............
The LS1 is smaller than any DOHC V8 on the market to my knowledge (yes its smaller than the Lexus V8 too).[/quote]
Only because your info is biased :)
The RPA and Powertec engines are TINY compared to a monolith like the LS1 :D
195lbs 360hp for the Powertec ... sorry no "comparative" picutres of old tech V8 versus new tech V8.
I agree that the LS1 is a small V8 and that makes it good for many things, but lets keep OBJECTIVE about it ( or do you claim that the LS1 won Le Mans ? )
So NOT the smallest on the market !! Smallest, good for 100,000 miles, no technical knowledge needed to maintain, lots of tuners around, lots of bits avaialble and cheap -- yes :D
[quote]And if they're so "low tech" why do so many people swap their engines for them? RX7s, Miatas, M3s, you name it.[/quote]
erm, you said it .... CHEAP !!!
Hard to get that much power with no hassle for an installation.
It doesn't make it the "best" all round and why so many fanboys end up in "flame wars" abotu it.
[quote]Personally I woudlnt be cought dead with a Honda engine, every driven one? The very definition of peaky, its turbo lag with no turbo power, to top things off all of their I4s sound like weedwakers on steroids.[/quote]
and thank you for providing another wquote that can be cited as typical fanboy comments.
You KNOW by now that LOTS of folks on UCP have driven the range of vehicle and cars that encompass many engine types and knwo the benefits ( and drawbacks ). Shame that to date you STILL dont' understand that it's your upbringing that makes you so "enginist" -- we shoudl get some KKK hoods for the anti-rev brigade :D
i like my honda because it gets me there.
and it does have torque...may be because mine doesn't come with V-tec :)
[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]
erm, you said it .... CHEAP !!!
Hard to get that much power with no hassle for an installation.
It doesn't make it the "best" all round and why so many fanboys end up in "flame wars" abotu it.
[/QUOTE]
Push-rods have their benefits. Specific fuel consumption is one.
GM thanks to push-rods has been getting the best SFC in all segments except compacts. With 200hp Buick v6 getting 30mpg and 400hp vettes getting 27mpg on freeways.
Again, what is the point in SOHC orDOHC engines in trucks? They need 500hp at 2000rpm and not at 20,000rpm. Are you going to race them in some class where you need to wind the motor into twilight zone? The push-rod 'vette derived Vortex v8. Best SFC.
[quote=sunk]Push-rods have their benefits. Specific fuel consumption is one.[/quote]
What ?
That has NOTHING to do with the valve drive technology :D
[quote]GM thanks to push-rods has been getting the best SFC in all segments except compacts. With 200hp Buick v6 getting 30mpg and 400hp vettes getting 27mpg on freeways.[/quote]
That's to do with CAPACITY and gearbox. NOTHING to do with vlave drivetrain per-se.
[quote]Again, what is the point in SOHC orDOHC engines in trucks? They need 500hp at 2000rpm and not at 20,000rpm. Are you going to race them in some class where you need to wind the motor into twilight zone? The push-rod 'vette derived Vortex v8. Best SFC.[/quote]
COMPRESSION ratio is the major variable that affects SFC.
Power delivery low down for trucks is spot on, needs LOTS of torque to move heavy weight easily.
But once it's into a car the advantage isnt' as clear.
OHCs in trucks will come into it's own now that better emissions are requred and more complex and variable timing is needed. Doing that in the head is "easier" -- because the in-block space for a cam is limited.
And if you want GOOD SFC as the prime choice, then go turbo-diesel :D
Cummins,Cat and Detroit diesel all run ohc in their tractor trailer engine divisions, all are between 12-15 litre 300-600hp and 1650ft/lb of torque and run ohc. Sunk you better phone them up, get them to fire their engineers and get rid of those OHC and install some pushrods in those enginesbecause ohc engines dont make torque, truley you have no idea do you:p
[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]Only because your info is biased :)
[/quote]
And the crap you come up with is not?
I see nothing biased about facts...
[quote]
The RPA and Powertec engines are TINY compared to a monolith like the LS1 :D
195lbs 360hp for the Powertec ... sorry no "comparative" picutres of old tech
V8 versus new tech V8.[/quote]
Can I get a price? size dimensions? Powerband? Reliability? Maintanence?
[quote]
I agree that the LS1 is a small V8 and that makes it good for many things, but lets keep OBJECTIVE about it ( or do you claim that the LS1 won Le Mans ? )
So NOT the smallest on the market !! Smallest, good for 100,000 miles, no technical knowledge needed to maintain, lots of tuners around, lots of bits avaialble and cheap -- yes :D[/quote]
Did you not read? Possibly smallest [U]V8[/U]. Im pretty sure, but please name another V8 thats smaller.
[quote]
erm, you said it .... CHEAP !!!
Hard to get that much power with no hassle for an installation.
It doesn't make it the "best" all round and why so many fanboys end up in "flame wars" abotu it.
[/quote]
And the fact that its LIGHTER than their original engine.
[quote]
and thank you for providing another wquote that can be cited as typical fanboy comments.
You KNOW by now that LOTS of folks on UCP have driven the range of vehicle and cars that encompass many engine types and knwo the benefits ( and drawbacks ). Shame that to date you STILL dont' understand that it's your upbringing that makes you so "enginist" -- we shoudl get some KKK hoods for the anti-rev brigade :D[/QUOTE]
Opposed to your "ZOMG WE MUST REV HIGH, AND USE DA GEARZ" clan?
Sorry that I like a USABLE powerband, its not my "upbringing", its my logic. Given the choice I rather have a flat (high)torque curve form idle to redline, than a flat (high) torque curve from 6000-8000RPMs.
[QUOTE=Slicks] Given the choice I rather have a flat (high)torque curve form idle to redline, than a flat (high) torque curve from 6000-8000RPMs.[/QUOTE]
And do you like cars and driving? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=McReis]And do you like cars and driving? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Do you like turbo lag?
[QUOTE=Slicks]Do you like turbo lag?[/QUOTE]
One thing has nothing to do with the other. A revvy engine isn't necessarily dead in low revs. My car has enough low end grunt for every urban situation but still has a high-revving character.
I'm not saying you have a wrong opinion. It's just unusual for someone who loves cars and driving. You'd love to have a german TDI engined car then. It can be violent on lower revs and keeps flat all through the rev-band.
Ill agree that OVH engines are perfect for diesel and low rpm applications, theres no argument there, The point is the high rpm power of honda engines. Sure a V8 puts out a hefty amount of torque, but the sound and feel of a honda engine screaming at close to 8000 rpm simply can't be beat. And to refocus the argument on honda, if you compared the honda civic or rsx with a more appropriate model then the corvette, say the new cobalt, the honda is still a better made, faster, and better handleing car. (Even with DOHC technology, the cobalt cant rev as high as the honda, and requires forced induction to mactch its horsepower). The fact that you even mention the econo-box honda in the same post as dedicated v-8 engine sports cars is a destimate to the success of the honda car, a car that can get you from point A to B safely, efficiently, and comfortly, but still have some get up and go when you need it.
[quote=Slicks]And the crap you come up with is not?
I see nothing biased about facts...[/quote]
oh, dear. We had egg on your face over that kidn of comment in teh past Slicks.
My inputs ARE based on actual first hand ( and occasiaonlly secodn hand form others in club and paddock ).
And to call it "crap" is makign YOU look as stupid as Guibo.
Mine are FACTS. Guibo hasn't a clue abotu what he's reading OR what he's talking abotu throttle control. Reading it in mags is not the same as taking Dingle Dell in a powerful rear engined car adn usgin the throttle to steer it ( and no NOT the stupid "drift" clown stuff ... THAT is easy to look good, we're talkign begin FAST )
[quote]Can I get a price? size dimensions? Powerband? Reliability? Maintanence?[/quote]
Ah so like Guibo, NOT reading. You'll notice that I definately give the LS1 the hands up on those last three itmes ( go back and READ rather than knee-jerk :) ) ZING !!!!!
I only pointed out that the LS1 ins't the SMALLEST :D
Shame you got your knickers in a twist by believing the lies (marketing twist) of Chevrolet that it HAS to be the best everythign because it has a flag on it :( ( So DO you think it won Le Mans ???? :D )
[quote]Did you not read? Possibly smallest [U]V8[/U]. Im pretty sure, but please name another V8 thats smaller.[/quote]
Sorry, but as was first posted the Powertec !!
man, this is too painful to type, ROFLMA :S
[quote]
And the fact that its LIGHTER than their original engine.[/quote]
By "their" you mean heavier iron block engines swapping out ?
That's what lighter usually means ( just like was said about the Powertec )
Yeah for sure, not a lot of argument. But is it "better" ? Depends on the rest of the changes made doesn't it.
[quote]Opposed to your "ZOMG WE MUST REV HIGH, AND USE DA GEARZ" clan?[/quote]
erm, well if you KNOW anyone who types and thinks like that then I hasten to point that that's not "my clan".
The guys I talk about are on the tracks weekly around the UK and Euroep and on the rally stages. Getting the best all round performance is CRUCIAL to us.
What a silly comment THAT was , wasn't it Slicks .. given that you KNOW my history from previous exchanges !!!
[quote]Sorry that I like a USABLE powerband, its not my "upbringing", its my logic. Given the choice I rather have a flat (high)torque curve form idle to redline, than a flat (high) torque curve from 6000-8000RPMs.[/quote]
oh,m dear, now THAT one was done to death a LONG time ago and PROVEN that other solutions actually had a wider usable power band :) Proven from facts, figures and charts and NOT the ramblings of an over-ejaculated mag reader !!!
BUT I concur that I'd also rather have 3,000 band of revs of usable power than 2,000.
But that's not the reality :D It's NOT jsut 6000-8000 and I'm NOT going into it again, you can go read throught the DOZENS of posts where I clarfied that with facts.
PS: What cars are you driving that have turbo-lag ? They dont' exist outside of the lunatic STIKKAS fanatics !!! That's a 1980s problem ...... well over here it is, maybe your favourite manufacturer has still to catch up on teh technology :D
...... and returning to the THREAD !!! Who cares about LS1 anyway :D
They make the best motorbikes in the world, they use to dominate F1 time to time, they dominate that Indy racing league, they almost dominate MotoGPX league, they make the most overall reliable cars in the world (next to toyota), they stick to there philosophy of performance- and its good, they continue and always will stay active and present in motorsports for innovation and development- similiar to ferrari but is present outside of F1.