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[QUOTE=f6fhellcat13;866231]THe one's in the 9ffs are 4.0L.
I'd imagine that the factory will stop making them larger at 4.2-4.5L.
The GT3 RSR is already a factory 4.0.[/QUOTE]
The RSR was initially reported by AUtoblog to be 4.0 L, but later they had it listed at 3.8 L, so I think they made a boo-boo.
Two things, the LS7 has nearly a litre per cylinder so the problem may be packaging the engine maybe not actual size, and why do 911s in my experience rev so low compared to say Ferraris and the like? Is it due to the flat engine configuration or something?
[QUOTE=Ferrer;866232]Except for the noise, which is a big part of the driving exprience.[/QUOTE]
I haven't really heard any water-cooled Porsches. Youtube to the rescue.
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;866234]The RSR was initially reported by AUtoblog to be 4.0 L, but later they had it listed at 3.8 L, so I think they made a boo-boo.
Two things, the LS7 has nearly a litre per cylinder so the problem may be packaging the engine maybe not actual size, and why do 911s in my experience rev so low compared to say Ferraris and the like? Is it due to the flat engine configuration or something?[/QUOTE]
If you look at most (yes, I know there are exceptions) European performance engines they have about .5L/cylinder. 6L V-12s(Enzo), 4L V-8(RS4 M3), 3L 6(3.2 V6 that's in everything, old M3) etc...
Porsche is already at .6L/ cylinder with the 3.6 base engine and ~.65L/cylinder with the 3.8.
This large cylinder might be why they don't rev as high, they might also be more undersquare than comparable engines.
EDIT: The 3.6 delivers peak power at 6800rpm but the 3.8, despite having more hp/liter, peaks at 6600rpm.
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;866225]Don't roll like that - the Porsche "purists" that would have us all driving Carrera RS's or 930s or 993 GT2s.
Watercooling is superior and changes nothing about the car really.
You can complain about the new looks (which are way better) or the "neutered" handling, but the air-cooled/water-cooled divide I think is silly. It just so happened that along with that change many there things were many other changes - and for the better in my view (No I have not driven a Porsche).[/QUOTE]
It's completely by accident I assure you. But I love the 928 and the 968 (which I drove and thought was fantastic) and those are both water-cooled. I really liked the 996 GT3 and the first 997 GT3.
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[QUOTE=f6fhellcat13;866235]If you look at most (yes, I know there are exceptions) European performance engines they have about .5L/cylinder. 6L V-12s(Enzo), 4L V-8(RS4 M3), 3L 6(3.2 V6 that's in everything, old M3) etc...
Porsche is already at .6L/ cylinder with the 3.6 base engine and ~.65L/cylinder with the 3.8.
This large cylinder might be why they don't rev as high, they might also be more undersquare than comparable engines.
EDIT: The 3.6 delivers peak power at 6800rpm but the 3.8, despite having more hp/liter, peaks at 6600rpm.[/QUOTE]
For comparison the LS7 has peak power at 6,200 rpm and it's has 876 cc unitary displacement.
Also for comparison, looking at the F430's 4.3 L, we have a bore 92 mm and a stroke 81 mm for a ratio of 1.136 and max power at 8,500 rpm, the GT3 and it's 3.6L; we have a bore of 100 mm and a stroke of 76.4 mm for a ratio of 1.309 with max power at 7,600 rpm, so that's quite a fair bit more oversquare than the F430's engine, yet is about a grand shorter for max power in terms of rpm. Still though, the cylinders in the F430 are 0.54 L as opposed to the 0.65 for the 3.6 like you said.
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[QUOTE=Kitdy;866234]
I haven't really heard any water-cooled Porsches. Youtube to the rescue.[/QUOTE]
the turbo water cooled porsches all sound like ass. the n/a ones like the GT3 don't lose out by much, especially with an aftermarket exhaust ;)
there is something to a turbo 930 with a screamer pipe...
[QUOTE=NicFromLA;866236]It's completely by accident I assure you. But I love the 928 and [B]the 968 (which I drove and thought was fantastic) [/B][/QUOTE]
agreed, i quite like the 968 CS when it was in normal colours (black with BBS wheels). i dunno if i'd buy one give the price though.
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[quote=Ferrer;865948]...and yet they insist with manuals for their most focused cars.[/quote]
As they bloody well should. I'm sick of these nimbly-bimbly, limp-wristed manu-matics for prissies who can't shift their own gears. Sorry, I don't care how advanced the technology becomes, I'd never buy a performance (or any) car with an automatic.
Also, to all of you disparaging this fine car's name, you're wrong. Sorry, but this GT3 is awesome like all before it, and it still stands as the best 911 model.
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It's a 3.8L in the GT3, look closer at the end plates on the rear wing.
Kinda harks back to the day of the 965 Turbos going from 3.3 to the 3.6
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i'd like to see this car in a different colour - silver, white, blue, black (holy shit did i just describe porsche's entire spectrum of available colours?), whatever.
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[QUOTE=zeppelin;866329]As they bloody well should. I'm sick of these nimbly-bimbly, limp-wristed manu-matics for prissies who can't shift their own gears. Sorry, I don't care how advanced the technology becomes, I'd never buy a performance (or any) car with an automatic.
[/QUOTE]
completely agree with you. but in general i think the manumatics do shave a little time off the 0-60 and some people just suck at driving stick. since most of porsche's competition has manumatics, and some people like manumatics, porsche should at least offer it as an option.
likewise i think its rediculous that some ferraris and stuff dont offer manuals anymore! i dont care if gated shifters suck at least give me the option of shifting my own gears!
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[QUOTE=roosterjuicer;866397]likewise i think its rediculous that some ferraris and stuff dont offer manuals anymore! i dont care if gated shifters suck at least give me the option of shifting my own gears![/QUOTE]
Hence the 355 might be the only true Ferrari that I consider in later years.
Also, high performance manufacturers should just have the "old school" sticks as the only option. It would keep the would-be's away!
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[QUOTE=zeppelin;866329]As they bloody well should. I'm sick of these nimbly-bimbly, limp-wristed manu-matics for prissies who can't shift their own gears. Sorry, I don't care how advanced the technology becomes, I'd never buy a performance (or any) car with an automatic.[/QUOTE]
Of course I agree completely.
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[QUOTE=LTSmash;866398] It would keep the would-be's away![/QUOTE]
agreed but unfortunately, the a lot of people who are rich enough to afford some of these cars are would-be's.
dont most f1 cars have manumatics now? (out of curiousity)
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[quote=Ferrer;866399]Of course I agree completely.[/quote]
Ah right, I'd gotten the impression that you were suggesting that they shouldn't insist on manuals for their most focused cars.
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I would have preferred some small fender flares evoking the porsches of old and IROC tail offered as an option as well as a lower stance. PDK would have been a nice addition even if arguably it would compromise it sporting intentions.
[QUOTE]I haven't really heard any water-cooled Porsches[/QUOTE]
My grandpas 996 GT3 sounds like **** It makes a bloody tin-can noise for a few minutes while the engine heats up (we called Porsche and they claim it is a race inspired technology... :rolleyes: and then settles down and makes a noise comparable to a 1990's cadillac. Sounds really metallic at full bark. I hate it. The RSR has 4.0L according to Porsche.
The successful Porsche 911 GT3 RSR takes off into the new model year with extensive modifications. The most powerful race car based on the Porsche 911, which last season secured wins in the American Le Mans Series and at the Nürburgring 24 Hours, competes in the GT2 class at international long distance races. The most distinguishing feature of the new GT3 RSR is the redesigned front with large air outlets on the front hood. Under the light-weight bodyshell, as well, major changes were made to the quickest 911.
Noticeable at first sight are the air outlet slots, or the so-called louvers, on the front hood: an indication of the completely redesigned air ducting of the radiators, which became necessary through the new design of supply and discharge air with the installation of an optional air-conditioning unit. The aerodynamics under the rear underwent further optimisation. The rear wing now features a wider adjustment range. The weight-optimised brake system and the lighter wiring harness contribute to further improved handling, compared to the predecessor model.
The capacity of the well-known six-cylinder boxer engine increased from 3.8 to 4.0-litres. After another reduction in the size of the air restrictors for the 2009 season, the engine now delivers around 450 hp (331 kW) at 7,800 revs per minute and develops a maximum torque of 430 Nm at 7,250 rpm. The rev limiter of the efficient six-cylinder unit kicks in at 9,400 rpm. Compared to the forerunner, the rev level for a given power output was significantly lowered. Thanks to this, the engine features an optimised torque curve and offers better driveability.
In the cockpit, a new multi-function display located above the dashboard indicates the optimum moment to change gears. Another new feature is the programmable multi-function, onboard supply system control device, giving teams the choice of many individual functions. One of these is the infinitely adjustable blinking frequency of the lights in the front apron, which helps to immediately recognise race cars when they enter the pits in the dark. For easier servicing under race conditions, other modifications were made. The GT3 RSR now features a new air-jack system with overpressure valve. The oil refill with fast filling function has now moved to the rear lid, giving mechanics better access.
Aside from GT3 Cup and the GT3 Cup S, the GT3 RSR is the third race car based on the Porsche 911 offered by Porsche Motorsport. About 20 of the successful long distance racers have been built in Weissach and are now being delivered to customer teams around the world. The GT3 RSR costs 380,000 Euro plus VAT specific to each country.
Technical Description Porsche GT3 RSR (MY 2009)
Engine:
Water-cooled, six-cylinder boxer engine; four valves
per cylinder; dry sump lubrication; individual throttle
butterflies; fuel injection; air restrictors 2 x 29.5 mm.
Bore:
102.7 mm
Stroke:
80.4 mm
Capacity:
3,996 cc
Power output:
331 kW (450 bhp) at 7,800 rpm
Max. Torque:
430 Nm at 7,250 rpm
Max. revs:
9,400 rpm
Transmission:
Six-speed gearbox with sequential jaw-type shift;
oil/water heat exchanger; single-mass flywheel;
hydraulic disengagement lever; three-plate carbon-fibre
clutch; rear wheel drive; limited-slip differential 45/65%.
Body:
Monocoque body (basis GT3 RS) of hot-galvanised steel;
aerodynamically optimised front end with front spoiler;
aerodynamically optimised front underfloor; adjustable
rear wing; 90-litre safety fuel tank with fast filling function;
air jack; welded-in safety cage; bucket-type racing seat
(on driver's side only) with flame-resistant seat cover;
six-point seat belt adapted for use of the HANS
Head and Neck Support; electric fire-extinguishing system.
Suspension:
Front:
McPherson spring strut axle; Sachs four-way gas
pressure dampers; double coil springs (main and ancillary
spring); front axle arms adjustable for camber; adjustable
sword-type anti-roll bar on both sides; power steering.
Rear:
Multi-arm axle with rigidly mounted axle sub-frame;
Sachs four-way gas pressure dampers; double coil springs
(main and auxiliary spring); rear axle tie-bar reinforced
and infinitely adjustable; adjustable sword-type anti-roll
bar on both sides.
Complete suspension infinitely adjustable (height,
camber, track).
Brakes:
Brake system with balance bar control.
Front:
Single-piece six-piston aluminium fixed callipers;
inner-vented, 380 mm in diameter; racing brake pads.
Rear: Single-piece four-piston aluminium fixed callipers;
inner-vented, 355 mm in diameter; racing brake pads.
Wheels:
Front:
Three-piece BBS light-alloy wheels (11J x 18-34);
central bolt;
Rear:
Three-piece BBS light-alloy wheels (13J x 18-12.5);
central bolt.
Electrical System:
Motec display with integrated data recording; multi-function
display with integrated gearshift indicator; adjustable
traction control; battery: 12 volt, 50 Ah, 140 Ah alternator.
Weight:
Approx. 1,220 kg complying with A.C.O. regulations,
1,245 kg complying with FIA regulations.
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There is a rumour that the next GT3 will have a PDK instead of a manual.
That makes me sad. Read it on Jalopnik care of 0-60 care of rennlist.
