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[QUOTE=SupraMan22]if the muscle car era is done, why is gm still trying to bring it back?
EDIT: i dont understand where you are going with that honestly[/QUOTE]
"they" being G.M. is putting all their eggs in the Camaro basket basically...And the whole thing I posted well it was more or less a rant...lol.
I absolutely LOVE Muscle Cars...but there will never EVER be another "Muscle Car " era.And Ford mustangs are barely moving now.Ive got one of the largest ford dealerships in the south east like ten minutes from my house and they have had the same Mustangs for at least 60-90 days.I was just saying that the first group of people that will put down deposits on a new Camaro will be sadly dissapointed when another million people have a car JUST LIKE THEIRS and got them WAY cheaper.
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your telling the truth there.
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well...I really dont care if you all dont see it, more for me.
My GM stock is about to be doubled from where I bought it last year, My corvettes run hard and fast, the GMC truck is now at over 250,000 miles with not ONE problem at all....and my boat has 2 chevy 350's...no problems there and it is 10 years old !!!...my girlfriend's Mustang is also 10 years old, & no problems there either !!...and it was a Hertz rental car first off too !...Value and reliability are actually hallmarks of American products...and these times are no threat to innovation or manufacture of US products.
OK, so they make Buicks in China now,...& they make Toyotas in Ohio or some shit too...so what ? I really dont care where a "car" is made, but I do care about the Company that produces that car, and Toyo cant cut it. Thier cars look like crap, are not built any better than most cars, and I can not justify supporting toyota as a company, tho I am sure they dont need me...they got lotsa suckers already !!
...and Bigworm, "when your stupid enough to pay 35,000 bucks for a sedan that cant get out of its own way and looks like hell warmed over anyway...well ...your just stupid"....."& when you paid 60,000 bucks for the same crappy car, ...your driving a Lexus !!!"
So you may ask me "if GM is so friggin great, why then are they seemingly in such shit ?"
simple, thay are fighting a government admisitration that is addicted to OIL, and making money First at the price of Killing our children to do it too, so if the present government in the USA dose not give a damn about the population, why would they care about the car you buy ?
they dont so long as you buy one...any one as long as it uses GAS & OIL.
Why do you think the "VOLT" caused such a stir...it goes against 100 years of auto manufacture and government practice here !!!...and truthfully most Americans cant wait to get rid of the OIL companies anyway...and "DUBBA-U"...get ready for the first FEMALE President of the USA !!!
Toyota supports the Staus Quo, because they make money from it, but it is costing americans thier livleyhood, thier lifestyles and thier family members...I dont see this continuing and GM is taking a RESPONSIBLE direction in hand and CREATING REAL ALTERNATIVES to Toyotas standard practice...even GM's Flex Fuel cars are better than a "Hybrid" toyota !!!...and the BIG TRUCKS have these engines too !!...and America EATS up Trucks to the tune of Millions a year !
Anyway, it is time for a POSITIVE change in our culture, and GM is again leading the way in the aera of Automobiles !
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[QUOTE=MRDETROITMETAL]simple, thay are fighting a government admisitration that is addicted to OIL, and making money First at the price of Killing our children to do it too, so if the present government in the USA dose not give a damn about the population, why would they care about the car you buy ?
they dont so long as you buy one...any one as long as it uses GAS & OIL.[/QUOTE]
MDM did you see that recent doccu-movie 'Who killed the electric car' ? Worth a look imo, I was quite enlightened by it :)
[QUOTE]Why do you think the "VOLT" caused such a stir...it goes against 100 years of auto manufacture and government practice here !!!...and truthfully most Americans cant wait to get rid of the OIL companies anyway...and "DUBBA-U"...get ready for the first FEMALE President of the USA !!![/QUOTE]
Let's hope so mate .. either her or that intruiging black guy Obama :cool:
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About the Volt...
Mrdetroitmental why are you even harping on about that SHOWCAR?The battery that it needs to be fully functional HASNT EVEN BEEN MADE YET...G.M. is wanting the U.S. government to do the r&d for it...lol.Dont believe me Im sure...Google.com...find out for yourself.G.M. is eventually going to have to ask the feds for help.Its just a matter of time.
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MDM, I'm not going to bother responding to your posts because it's quite clear you give no credence whatsoever to any evidence or even opinion. Everything you talk above has already been covered and refuted. I'm done wasting my time here.
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Well I agree the US Government needs to support balancing the trade disadvantages that US automakers must overcome and assist in the REAL development of alternative energy infastructure and technology, much better pursuits than an Illeagal and unsantioned War to steal Oil from other countries, IMO.
GM has the right Idea with the Volt, and flexfuel too..of course other Import companies dont care because they have nothing at risk as long as the staus quo remains as is.
The Us Government IS responsible for creating the present situation with American Auto makers, by allowing import companies to trade at below market level prices, and that has in turn degraded the entire workforce in America. But it did start with the "Big 3" being left out in the cold by the government insistence that "free trade" continue as is, copurse now it is obvious that it was "unfair trade" and there was nothing FREE about it at all.
Toyota and other import companies used the freedoms of America and the Greed of the population to take full advantage of the marketplace in thier favor, and because the money was flowing, nobody defended the domestic car companies and workers, ...now the price is being paid for that in lost marketshare and jobs and finally it is costing the Government too in reduced tax revenue and trade deficts, so NOW they are willing to step in and make some changes...lets hope so anyway.
The Main point here tho, and there can be no agrument about it is that all car companies use the SAME suppliers basically the Same technology, and the same manufacturing methods, so even the worst cars made are far better than they ever have been in reliability and there really is no Difference from brand to brand, its all just hype and marketing.
The real difference is DESIGN and feel of the vehicles, the performance, utility, comfort and efficent operation are set at various levels by arrangement of similar componets by ALL manufacturers.
The FACT remains that GM is still the BEST at doing this to meet ALL the World Markets and that is Why they are # 1.
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No, it's not. They're number one because decades ago they were one of the only options for a market which had been previously unexplored. They were able to build an empire by providing cars in a world where few others could exist, and in which there were few other options. They are number one now because of that power they created early in the 20th century. If there had been Japanese companies selling in America in 1920 I'm pretty sure GM certainly wouldn't be sitting on top.
Basically, just because some average Joe could start a sucessful car company in 1900 and not the average Joe in 2007 doesn't mean Joe 2007 is a total failure, incompetent loser and stupid idiot.
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er...Why would the import carmakers want to screw the American market? They won't want to miss an opportunity to make $. Hell, Toyota produced the first mass-produced hybrid, the Prius, and it seems they're the only ones trying to sell useful hybrids.
Don't forget the hydrogen vehicles.
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[Quote=Mr DM]by allowing import companies to trade at below market level prices[/Quote]
Go back to school. You are obviously and idiot or troll.
If Toyota is trading below market prices how are they so profitable?
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so the government is helping toyota cheat, and Toyota is at fault for taking advantage of a market where they can make money? is that really your argument against them?
[QUOTE]so even the worst cars made are far better than they ever have been in reliability and there really is no Difference from brand to brand, its all just hype and marketing.[/QUOTE]
so all the reports from all the groups that rate car reliablility are just hype and marketing?
As Esperante said, GM is number one becase they still have 400 billion dollars that theyve made in the last 100 years. unfortunately, they are losing money in the tens of billions every year, while toyota is gaining money in the tens of billions. GM sells more cars, and loses more money, toyota sells less cars and makes more money. I dont see what you are possibly arguing about. the only thing you have right is that GM sold more cars than toyota last year. thats it. number of sales yes. profits? hell no.
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[QUOTE=kingofthering]Toyota produced the first mass-produced hybrid, the Prius, and it seems they're the only ones trying to sell useful hybrids.
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Prius was not first, pretty sure the Insight came before it...also Honda makes some good Hybrids.
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You can live by numbers and opinions or by attitude and knowelge, if you precieve my thoughts to not be based in real understandings thats your progitive, I can say the same regarding many comments here too, esp the most recent ones that GM is living off past succsess from 100 years ago...No GM has Built a world corpopration in THIS century by consiladating all of it's various operations into ONE GM, that produces a great variety of products for Every market and occupys top or at least leading positions sales in all of those markets !...that is what Keeps GM at #1. The current restructuring of GM is starting to make the company even more powerful and capable to sustain and increase its profits, sales and operations. the Main problem is ATTITUDE and Perceptions that GM has to overcome, as many of you have so aptly demonstrated here with your comments.
Look here is an "observation" I have noticed, and it is not a bonefide statistical report but it does IMO reflect the Attitude of the different buyers of these "cars" from both companies, and in this respect Toyota may be correct that they do indeed sell to a different customer tham GM....:
When I walk my Dog and I am 6 ft tall, he is a 75 lb Pit Bull..we sometimes walk along the median strip on the Blvd...this is a quiet neighborhood with local traffic only, BUT...EVERY time an American car passes by us the drivers pull away a foot or two in order to give us room, even tho there are 2 lanes in both directions, however whenever a Japansese car comes by the drivers dont budge an inch, [U]it is as if we are not even SEEN by them.[/U] This happens EVERY time too, without exception. WHY ?
[I]To me it is an indication of the types of buyers[/I], american car owners buy a car to DRIVE, japanese (asian) buyers get a car to go somewhere and care less about driving...they just wanna get where there goin, no matter.
Certianly, the drivers (obviously this is a broad generalization) of American cars are more aware and courtious if nothing else in thier driving practices and perhaps they care more about the car they are driving too. I know it's a little thing to mention but IMO it is Very Revelaing with regards to the kinds of buyers each type of car appeals to. Buying a car is an emotional experience, not just based on numbers and proven facts or opinion....tho for many it seems that they have lost that emotional desire towards the type of car they are driving. [I]They just dont care, and the way they drive shows exactly that same attitude !![/I]
It's just sumpin to think about thats not up for arguement.
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[quote=MRDETROITMETAL]When I walk my Dog and I am 6 ft tall, he is a 75 lb Pit Bull..we sometimes walk along the median strip on the Blvd...this is a quiet neighborhood with local traffic only, BUT...EVERY time an American car passes by us the drivers pull away a foot or two in order to give us room, even tho there are 2 lanes in both directions, however whenever a Japansese car comes by the drivers dont budge an inch, it is as if we are not even SEEN by them. This happens EVERY time too, without exception. WHY ?
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Never mind. You're absolutely right. All American drivers are courteous, respectful, homy and nice, and import drivers are rude, mean, arrogant, disrespectful and ignorant. You win. :rolleyes:
If that's a valid argument I'd say the biggest detriment that American cars have going for them is that YOU drive one of them.
God, shut up!
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[quote=MRDETROITMETAL][When I walk my Dog and I am 6 ft tall, he is a 75 lb Pit Bull..we sometimes walk along the median strip on the Blvd...this is a quiet neighborhood with local traffic only, BUT...EVERY time an American car passes by us the drivers pull away a foot or two in order to give us room, even tho there are 2 lanes in both directions, however whenever a Japansese car comes by the drivers dont budge an inch, it is as if we are not even SEEN by them. This happens EVERY time too, without exception.[/quote]
It is one of the funniest arguements I've heard from you.
Now, seriously, do you realy think that American government (government of one of the strongest and richest empires in the world) is stupid enough to destroy it's own heavy industry by supporting other country's industry?
I don't realy know what happens now in US, but in european countries, where industry exists, government makes everything to support it, lower taxes, etc. Cause the part of money from sells goes to country's budget (that's how tax system works)
Now explain me what is the reason for US government to support Toyota's sales? :/