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In essence, ONO.
Also, if you are going to buy a Tipo4 car, you may as well go for this.
[url="http://www.coches.net/lancia-thema-thema-832-4p-gasolina-1991-en-madrid-30992433-covo.aspx"]LANCIA Thema THEMA 8.32 Gasolina Granate del 1991 con 130000km en Madrid 30992433
[/url]
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There are 0 for sale in this nation.
But yeah, that would be the thinking man's choice. I would love to roll in that.
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The Opel Adam makes no sense at all as a Buick.
[url="http://www.carscoops.com/2016/03/buick-boss-not-interested-in-opel-adam.html"]Buick Boss Not Interested In Opel Adam, Hints At Future Halo Car[/url]
What a surprise!
Said no one.
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You wouldn't buy a Buick David?
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I would buy it if it was called the Buick Dunbar.
Imagine of the possibilities!
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What's this Tesla Model 3 business? It's just the cheapest EV they've made so far right?
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[quote=NSXType-R;1014741]What's this Tesla Model 3 business? It's just the cheapest EV they've made so far right?[/quote]
Yes.
Roadster: low volume, high price
Model S/X: average volume, average price
Model 3: high volume, low price
I'm not really digging the looks a whole lot, but I'm looking forward to seeing one up close and personal. Wife and I considered putting the refundable deposit down, but I hate being an early adopter, and she's into the Model S more at this point.
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Yeah I liked the renderings a lot more than what the 3 actually ended up looking like. Not S3XY at all...
This is kinda the turning point for Tesla, isn't it? This will determine whether or not all the retail investors have massively overvalued the stock, or if Elon walks the walk.
It is one thing to build a smallish amount of niche cars that have some niggling buggy issues the faithful, fanatics, early adopters, and Kool Aid drinkers will accept, but becoming a legit mass manufacturer is a different story entirely. Will they be able to [I]build[/I] so many cars? People are going to be waiting a looooong time for their 3.
An electric car at 35k USD, if its sold at the straight exchange rate will not be near as affordable in Canada with the dollar in the toilet due to: Alberta's dirty oil sands don't make us much money any more (shh! The Loonie is a petrocurrency!) It doesn't matter much. The price is getting there and people are talking about buying one as a second car instead of a loaded midsize care or entry level luxury car. Having a Tesla as a second car negates all range anxiety issues, and that's what Teslas have been to this point: second/third/tenth cars.
Ras, I am also interested to see a replacement/new S. That will be something. I recall a conversation my friend and I had many years ago about the S; the performance seemed unreal, especially when so many new manufactures end up being vapourware. How long did Jalopnik accuse Tesla of being vapourware in the early days? Now, this company could really cause damage in the next 5-10 years... Or go bust. Here's hoping creative destruction reigns. Onwards, Tesla.
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[quote=Rasmus;1014742]Yes.
Roadster: low volume, high price
Model S/X: average volume, average price
Model 3: high volume, low price
I'm not really digging the looks a whole lot, but I'm looking forward to seeing one up close and personal. Wife and I considered putting the refundable deposit down, but I hate being an early adopter, and she's into the Model S more at this point.[/quote]
My cousin also but a deposit down for a Model 3. He owns a Honda Pilot, CRV and a Toyota Sienna. But he also has a family of 7, so I'm not sure how this fits in.
[quote=Kitdy;1014769]Yeah I liked the renderings a lot more than what the 3 actually ended up looking like. Not S3XY at all...
This is kinda the turning point for Tesla, isn't it? This will determine whether or not all the retail investors have massively overvalued the stock, or if Elon walks the walk.
It is one thing to build a smallish amount of niche cars that have some niggling buggy issues the faithful, fanatics, early adopters, and Kool Aid drinkers will accept, but becoming a legit mass manufacturer is a different story entirely. Will they be able to [I]build[/I] so many cars? People are going to be waiting a looooong time for their 3.
An electric car at 35k USD, if its sold at the straight exchange rate will not be near as affordable in Canada with the dollar in the toilet due to: Alberta's dirty oil sands don't make us much money any more (shh! The Loonie is a petrocurrency!) It doesn't matter much. The price is getting there and people are talking about buying one as a second car instead of a loaded midsize care or entry level luxury car. Having a Tesla as a second car negates all range anxiety issues, and that's what Teslas have been to this point: second/third/tenth cars.
Ras, I am also interested to see a replacement/new S. That will be something. I recall a conversation my friend and I had many years ago about the S; the performance seemed unreal, especially when so many new manufactures end up being vapourware. How long did Jalopnik accuse Tesla of being vapourware in the early days? Now, this company could really cause damage in the next 5-10 years... Or go bust. Here's hoping creative destruction reigns. Onwards, Tesla.[/quote]
Jalopnik is part of Gawker, which is sensational media. It lives off clickbait, it's not surprising for them to put down a new company. Heck, I would too.
From what I hear the Model S is going to be more expensive when it gets its MMC, which sort of makes sense.
You bring up a good point about oil- especially with it being so cheap, what's the point of a Model 3? You could get a crossover and especially with them being so fuel efficient, it won't really hurt the bank too much. Plus, there's the issue of charging stations still. I'm on the East coast, and I haven't really seen any quick charging stations anywhere. California might be different. What's the charging status in Canada?
From what I've heard, the Tesla Model S is having some quality control issues. How severe, I have no idea.
Edit-
What are your thoughts on a turbo 4 cylinder Cayman and Boxster? It sounds like a mid engined Subaru STI.
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Apparently, there are superchargers stations in Canada. That's the extent of my knowledge. It looks like you can drive the Windsor to Quebec City corridor on Superchargers which is actually pretty good. I would rather make a long distance journey like that in a gas car and use an electric car for more daily stuff, but whatever.
And because Toronto isn't the centre of the universe/Canada, it seems as though there a sparing few stations out in the Western provinces. But we've got nothing like the density the US does. It is amazing how many of these things there are.
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So Nissan (Renault?) is taking a majority stake in Mitsubishi.
I'm not sure whether Nissan took over Renault or Renault took over Nissan actually.
But I guess now we can hope for an Evolution successor...? Or at least entry back into rally racing perhaps...?
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This, and the VW scandal, tell you to not screw around with [I]certain[/I] regulators. Mitsubishi would likely still be majority owned by its parent company if it did not partake in these stupid shenanigans, and VW may have to shell out billions of dollars to owners, dealers, the EPA, and CARB. Sales in the US for VW could really be dinged, and diesel in the US (hell, even Europe soon it looks like) for passenger cars may die down.
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[quote=Kitdy;1015047]This, and the VW scandal, tell you to not screw around with [I]certain[/I] regulators. Mitsubishi would likely still be majority owned by its parent company if it did not partake in these stupid shenanigans, and VW may have to shell out billions of dollars to owners, dealers, the EPA, and CARB. Sales in the US for VW could really be dinged, and diesel in the US (hell, even Europe soon it looks like) for passenger cars may die down.[/quote]
I wonder if this is Mitsubishi proper or just the automotive division, because Mitsubishi makes heavy machinery like ships and earth moving equipment... and air conditioners. I thought Mitsubishi was a massive, massive company and would be able to weather this sort of thing. I guess not.
Personally, there wasn't much to lose at Mitsubishi, now that the Evolution is dead anyway, so I don't see any big deal. Likewise, only 4-5 people in the USA probably bought their cars, so while I can see the EPA making them pay a penalty, it can't be anywhere as big as VW's as they probably sold more cars in the US.
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Mitsubishi Motor Corp. [URL="http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/investors/stockinfo/overview.html"]is part held by[/URL] Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi's Bank, and directly by Mitsubishi Corp. (aka Mitsubishi Group, the parent [I]keiretsu[/I]). And it [I]is[/I] huge. It's market cap on the Tokyo Stock Exchange is about 3 Trillion Yen, or 27.5 B USD (Toyota is the largest traded in Tokyo at 18 T Yen).
To further Americanify/contextualize, the largest company internationally by market cap is Apple at 480 B USD. You'd have to guess the parent company is OK with Nissan's input cuz - speaking out my backside a bit here - they likely would have the muscle to regain a controlling interest if they so desired.
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The rest of Mitsubishi maintain a 30% interest in MMC, Nissan has a 34% interest in MMC (effectively a controlling stake), Renault has a 43.4% interest in Nissan and Nissan as a 15% non-voting interest in Renault. Nissan will have 4 board members in MMC, including the chairman.
Easy!
And no, there will be no return to Rally. Ghosn don't race. MMC will supply small cheap cars through Asia and crossovers everywhere else, increasingly on Renault/Nissan platforms for the crossovers (and Lancer?) and maintain their Kei and small/cheap platform elsewhere. Is my guess anyway.
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[quote=pimento;1015051]Ghosn don't race.[/quote]
Ya know how everyone begs for innovation and new technology in racing? 'Member when Nissan gave all that free reign to Ben Bowlby and spent all that money on the Nissan GT-R LM Nismo for race only to lose spectacularly and cancel the program? How'd that work for everyone?
Ok, maybe this dodges the main complaint of racing fans that strict regulations are the problem; but it seems that if you try a massive innovation in a strict regulation regime, maybe its not for the best. To be fair to Carlos, Renault-Nissan do have a variety of racing programs (GT3, F1, Super GT etc.).
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[quote=Kitdy;1015049]Mitsubishi Motor Corp. [URL="http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/en/investors/stockinfo/overview.html"]is part held by[/URL] Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi's Bank, and directly by Mitsubishi Corp. (aka Mitsubishi Group, the parent [I]keiretsu[/I]). And it [I]is[/I] huge. It's market cap on the Tokyo Stock Exchange is about 3 Trillion Yen, or 27.5 B USD (Toyota is the largest traded in Tokyo at 18 T Yen).
To further Americanify/contextualize, the largest company internationally by market cap is Apple at 480 B USD. You'd have to guess the parent company is OK with Nissan's input cuz - speaking out my backside a bit here - they likely would have the muscle to regain a controlling interest if they so desired.[/quote]
Yeah, I knew that Mitsubishi is massive, but that's still really complicated haha.
[quote=pimento;1015051]The rest of Mitsubishi maintain a 30% interest in MMC, Nissan has a 34% interest in MMC (effectively a controlling stake), Renault has a 43.4% interest in Nissan and Nissan as a 15% non-voting interest in Renault. Nissan will have 4 board members in MMC, including the chairman.
Easy!
And no, there will be no return to Rally. Ghosn don't race. MMC will supply small cheap cars through Asia and crossovers everywhere else, increasingly on Renault/Nissan platforms for the crossovers (and Lancer?) and maintain their Kei and small/cheap platform elsewhere. Is my guess anyway.[/quote]
Ghosn is weird, he makes all these Matra-Alpine concepts and doesn't do much with them.
There is the Gran Turismo Academy stuff, so they do go racing. And I think they do have some nice heritage collection in Zama... but that's about it.
[quote=Kitdy;1015052]Ya know how everyone begs for innovation and new technology in racing? 'Member when Nissan gave all that free reign to Ben Bowlby and spent all that money on the Nissan GT-R LM Nismo for race only to lose spectacularly and cancel the program? How'd that work for everyone?
Ok, maybe this dodges the main complaint of racing fans that strict regulations are the problem; but it seems that if you try a massive innovation in a strict regulation regime, maybe its not for the best. To be fair to Carlos, Renault-Nissan do have a variety of racing programs (GT3, F1, Super GT etc.).[/quote]
The Nissan GT-R LM last year was so much fail. I felt so bad for Nissan during that race. I wonder why they hyped it so much, I'm sure even if they couldn't test at Le Mans they could have tested at a racetrack where Audi and Toyota ran LMP1 cars. Nissan was so off pace that it was ridiculous.
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The GTR-LM is an interesting case study. Basically they had a concept that required a lot of development time, then were told to make it quickly for about half as much money as they needed, then were forced to race it a year before the team had planned, then the powers that be were surprised that it didn't work real well, then pulled the plug on it. I don't know how the programme got off the ground to start with, but it was pretty clearly not a priority for those in charge.
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[quote=NSXType-R;1015044]So Nissan (Renault?) is taking a majority stake in Mitsubishi.
I'm not sure whether Nissan took over Renault or Renault took over Nissan actually.
But I guess now we can hope for an Evolution successor...? Or at least entry back into rally racing perhaps...?[/quote]
I wish to see a successor to the 3000GT and Eclipse, but that might just be a pipe dream. :(
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[quote=pimento;1015072]The GTR-LM is an interesting case study. Basically they had a concept that required a lot of development time, then were told to make it quickly for about half as much money as they needed, then were forced to race it a year before the team had planned, then the powers that be were surprised that it didn't work real well, then pulled the plug on it. I don't know how the programme got off the ground to start with, but it was pretty clearly not a priority for those in charge.[/quote]
I'm not sure what all the rush was, any sort of racing program like that has got to cost major $$$. It probably could have benefitted from an extra year of development. All that money down the drain, and with nothing to show.
Actually, now that I think about it, the Nissan Delta Wing is also a major failure as well. I wonder if the head of the Nissan LMP1 also was taking care of the Delta Wing stuff too.
[quote=Trailbreaker;1015131]I wish to see a successor to the 3000GT and Eclipse, but that might just be a pipe dream. :([/quote]
Mitsubishi made such cool cars in the late 80's and early 90's. The Galant, the Diamonte, the Pajero, the Eclipse, and the Starion were weird, quirky cars. Maybe they weren't the best made and all, but I loved seeing them in Jackie Chan movies.
At least they were [I]different[/I]. They are probably by far the weakest automaker in the US probably, with Mazda not too far behind I would imagine, although VW probably has a bigger problem in general, along with Chrysler/Fiat.
Speaking of which, does VW actually have a probable end game to the Dieselgate issue? I don't see any good solution at all to that.
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[quote=NSXType-R;1015141]I'm not sure what all the rush was, any sort of racing program like that has got to cost major $$$. It probably could have benefitted from an extra year of development. All that money down the drain, and with nothing to show.
Actually, now that I think about it, the Nissan Delta Wing is also a major failure as well. I wonder if the head of the Nissan LMP1 also was taking care of the Delta Wing stuff too.
Mitsubishi made such cool cars in the late 80's and early 90's. The Galant, the Diamonte, the Pajero, the Eclipse, and the Starion were weird, quirky cars. Maybe they weren't the best made and all, but I loved seeing them in Jackie Chan movies.
At least they were [I]different[/I]. They are probably by far the weakest automaker in the US probably, with Mazda not too far behind I would imagine, although VW probably has a bigger problem in general, along with Chrysler/Fiat.
Speaking of which, does VW actually have a probable end game to the Dieselgate issue? I don't see any good solution at all to that.[/quote]
I thought I read on some blogs that VW was going to buy back diesel cars at least in North America, but I'm not really quite sure if that is indeed the case.
I used to love diesels, but even before dieselgate I always questioned if getting a diesel hatchback was really all that much better than a gasoline powered one. I do like the idea of not having to deal with sparkplugs, but I just prefer the sound and the way gasoline engines drive over their diesel counterparts.
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I think the new CAFE is a smokescreen for obama's real mission - to change America into a 3rd world banana republic. He has followed through on his promise of hope & change. I was just hoping it wouldn't be changed to what I knew he had in mind, but it was not to be. I believe in American exceptionalism and CAFE isn't the final nail in the coffin, but it does put us at a disadvantage that will take time to overcome. I just hate to see the US pushed further down the list of the world manufacturers. I agree the Mustang is a world class muscle car. I don't know what the sales numbers are for international sales but I hope they are taking off. The Mustang is such a huge bargain. In a country where a "sports car" is generally considered a Corvette - an awesome car, very successful at racing in all categories it chooses to race vigorously. But IMO it is not a sports car in the traditional sense - IMO it is just too large. Hmm.. I wonder hpow a 4 wheel drive Mustang (like a Porsche Turbo) would be received?
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The Mustang is far bigger than the Corvette, isn't it? It is also the best selling sports coupé in the world.
[url="http://www.carscoops.com/2016/04/ford-mustang-becomes-planets-best.html"]Ford Mustang Becomes The Planets Best-Selling Sports Coupe For 2015[/url]
I'd love to have one, a GT hardtop. I doubt it'd fit anywhere, I don't how it'd handle +100mph motoring and fuel consumption would be abysmal. But a big normally aspirated V8 for an attainable price is most definitely a yes.
On the other hand, Mitsubishi has a completely forgettable line-up and so does Nissan. I was at a Nissan dealer this Saturday (for unrelated work reasons) and all I could see was a plethora of utterly boring SUVs and small hatchbacks. There was even a ghastly white and red Juke with a 117bhp engine and a CVT.
Oh god.
However, the 370Z costs 30 grand. I know I shouldn't want one.
But I do.
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Now that Nissan/Infiniti has a TT 3.0 V6 to replace the 3.7, maybe we'll see the return of the 300ZX Turbo nameplate?
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You know, I'm not sure why people want SUVs. They say they want the room and the space, they could totally buy a wagon. Sure, you're never going to sit as high up as a SUV, but at least they're not totally boring to drive.
The weirdest thing about car ownership is that people want to look "green" and so they drive a Tesla. Great.
For those who can't afford a Tesla, they buy a 4WD crossover or a hybrid SUV like the Lexus RX. If they knew anything about drivetrain losses and being green, they would have bought a hybrid sedan, which would have been the far lighter option.
Gas prices can't stay cheap forever, once they frack everything that can be fracked, gas prices will shoot way back up again.
I hope Nissan comes back with a new Silvia, because the 370Z is not cheap.
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Economy hybrid SUVs are indeed idiotic. But it is what people want for some reason.
On the other hand, the 370Z is extremely cheap. Even by European standards.
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What do you guys think of the Tesla crash during automated driving mode.
Saw this coming from a mile away, it was going to happen eventually.
[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesla-fatal-crash-investigation.html"]Log In - The New York Times[/url]
Honestly, I wouldn't trust any self driving car, the technology is so new that it can't be trusted. I'm not sure what the process is for approval, but how can something so new like this be sold to consumers? What is the process of approval for a self driving car in the US? I mean, adaptive cruise control and automatic braking is one thing, but self driving is a whole new ball game.
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On the other hand...
[url="http://www.carscoops.com/2016/07/study-finds-three-quarters-of-us.html"]Study Finds Three-Quarters Of US Drivers Interested In Owning Self-Driving Cars[/url]
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[quote=Ferrer;1015268]On the other hand...
[url="http://www.carscoops.com/2016/07/study-finds-three-quarters-of-us.html"]Study Finds Three-Quarters Of US Drivers Interested In Owning Self-Driving Cars[/url][/quote]
I gladly would embrace self driving cars for the population of people not interested in driving. That would free up all the roads for people who are interested.
That being said, even enthusiasts hate driving in bumper to bumper traffic. I have yet seen someone extol the virtues of sitting in traffic.
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Here's a question for you gearheads- what's the biggest currently sold luxury sedan you can still have with a manual transmission?
I was going to say Panamera, but I don't think they offer one anymore.
Maybe a BMW 7 series?
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[quote=NSXType-R;1015269]I gladly would embrace self driving cars for the population of people not interested in driving. That would free up all the roads for people who are interested.
That being said, even enthusiasts hate driving in bumper to bumper traffic. I have yet seen someone extol the virtues of sitting in traffic.[/quote]
I agree with that.
[quote=NSXType-R;1015281]Here's a question for you gearheads- what's the biggest currently sold luxury sedan you can still have with a manual transmission?
I was going to say Panamera, but I don't think they offer one anymore.
Maybe a BMW 7 series?[/quote]
I think it was the Panamera indeed, but no more manual gearboxes are offered for it currently.
Here in Europe the largest 4 door saloons with manuals are the Jaguar XF, the Audi A6 and the BMW 5 Series (in that order).
Soon they will be joined by the Mercedes-Benz E-Class and the Volvo S90.
The Volvo will be the longest.
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[quote=NSXType-R;1015188]You know, I'm not sure why people want SUVs. They say they want the room and the space, they could totally buy a wagon. Sure, you're never going to sit as high up as a SUV, but at least they're not totally boring to drive.
The weirdest thing about car ownership is that people want to look "green" and so they drive a Tesla. Great.
For those who can't afford a Tesla, they buy a 4WD crossover or a hybrid SUV like the Lexus RX. If they knew anything about drivetrain losses and being green, they would have bought a hybrid sedan, which would have been the far lighter option.
Gas prices can't stay cheap forever, once they frack everything that can be fracked, gas prices will shoot way back up again.
I hope Nissan comes back with a new Silvia, because the 370Z is not cheap.[/quote]
A new Silvia would be nice just to have another RWD sports car with back seats. I don't know what sales figures are like with the FR-S and BR-Z, but if those figures aren't as expected from Toyobaru then maybe that's why Nissan is reluctant. Chevrolet wanted to make an affordable RWD sports car (smaller than Camaro) with the Code 130R, I wish that would've made it into production.
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Morgan should stay a car company and make things with wheels. Not unveil a clothing line for British hipsters.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryLO4u1hQQ4"]Morgan EV3 #UK1909 Selfridges Edition - YouTube[/ame]
I think the branded clothing line is why the original Morgan family was kicked off the executive board.
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1 Attachment(s)
The attached image is a slide which comes from the Toyota CH-R presentation.
It is proof that we Europeans are the best drivers in the world.
The end.
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[quote=Ferrer;1015312]The attached image is a slide which comes from the Toyota CH-R presentation.
It is proof that we Europeans are the best drivers in the world.
The end.[/quote]
Or the most reckless :D
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I really wish Buick would make V8s again (I believe they don't have any at the moment in production). I miss the LaCrosse Super and Lucerne Super. Heck, I miss the Grand Prix GXP, Impala SS, and Monte Carlo SS.
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Get a Chevy SS while you can then, it's probably the closest thing you'll see to them for a while and it's not going to hang around much longer.
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[quote=pimento;1015382]Get a Chevy SS while you can then, it's probably the closest thing you'll see to them for a while and it's not going to hang around much longer.[/quote]
Oh I wish I could afford something like that. I imagine those cars being used are at least as expensive as a preowned 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP. They seem to hold onto their value well at least! I found a 2007 Buick Lucerne with the Northstar with not so many miles on it and most likely that car was babied because it was owned by an elderly gentleman.
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[quote=Trailbreaker;1015384]Oh I wish I could afford something like that. I imagine those cars being used are at least as expensive as a preowned 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP. They seem to hold onto their value well at least! I found a 2007 Buick Lucerne with the Northstar with not so many miles on it and most likely that car was babied because it was owned by an elderly gentleman.[/quote]
If not one of those, did you think about a Lincoln LS with a V8?
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[quote=NSXType-R;1015391]If not one of those, did you think about a Lincoln LS with a V8?[/quote]
Those are good choices as well. Weird enough, I used to dislike FWD a lot but ever since moving in an area that snows more I actually prefer FWD or AWD to RWD.