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Thread: Car Manufacturers have been illegally sharing data for 20 years

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coventrysucks
    The problem that it is illeagal to share that information, even if they don't gain anything from it.

    It also depends on exactly what information it is that they were sharing - information could have been used to "fix" prices for the UK, which makes the car manufacturers a cartel, which is why the law is there in the first place.
    Yea, true. But I, like everyone else dont see the big deal. Do you know what "informantion" exactly they were sharing? Because you can find car sales figures everywhere...

  2. #17
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    I own this encycpedia from the 80s that says it is allowed to share information between companys

  3. #18
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    ^^^^^^^^DUDE!!!your signature do something about it!^^^^^^^^
    Some Rulers Are Immortalized In Marble Others,
    In Carbon Fiber.{Hard Core Audi Fan}Ich Fahr Omnibus!
    """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuattroMan
    ^^^^^^^^DUDE!!!your signature do something about it!^^^^^^^^
    Yeah, you should post that list, and then put the URL to that list in your sig.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    So THEY aren't in production, but neither are Morris or Austin or Triump or Austin-Healey or hundreds of other badges consumed in corporate image.
    i thought triumph still made bikes just not cars

  6. #21
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    "The crucial issue is whether or not the parties could use the information they receive in a way that affects competition between themselves."
    They are apparently still debating and trying to find out if the sharing of this info may affect competition, so in the mean time why not play it safe? It also makes the campanies in question look innocent even if they were to know they were breaking the law, that way if they were breaking the law, there is a greater chance of just getting a warning instead of getting fined that 10% of their earnings. That is a pretty serious thing and alot of money. And if they were sharing this data what other data might they have been sharing?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Canuck
    i thought triumph still made bikes just not cars
    that's a different Triumph
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dydzi
    if they were so great, why there aren't still in production?
    they are still in production, only they are named Audi now. (Check the history of the DKW F102)

    another explanation of the acronym DKW was Deutsche Kinder Wagen (German Baby buggy), because they were rather small.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  9. #24
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    yes but matra says that porsche stole air-cooled beetle from dkw, read more carefully
    Wasn't this acknowledged theft from design genuis Hans Ledwinka, not DKW

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nota
    Wasn't this acknowledged theft from design genuis Hans Ledwinka, not DKW
    My understadning of it was that it gets hazy.
    Ledwinka's early work at Tatra develoep a front engined air-cooled boxer in the 20s.
    Then in the 30s they started looking at rear engine using the latest aero research. BUT the cars they produced were large luxury and were V8s.
    DKW had taken the similar research and had paid Porsche to do some design work with them on smaller, lighter car.
    Who influenced who in amongst all that ? Ledwinka at Tatra DID take adifferent rounte and went for large, comfort bigger engines. The Beetle went small, cheap and small boxer.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    My understadning of it was that it gets hazy.
    Ledwinka's early work at Tatra develoep a front engined air-cooled boxer in the 20s.
    Then in the 30s they started looking at rear engine using the latest aero research. BUT the cars they produced were large luxury and were V8s.
    DKW had taken the similar research and had paid Porsche to do some design work with them on smaller, lighter car.
    Who influenced who in amongst all that ? Ledwinka at Tatra DID take adifferent rounte and went for large, comfort bigger engines. The Beetle went small, cheap and small boxer.
    To be honest I'm less familiar re DKW/KDF connection, also with Skoda 932. Nevertheless the below makes for interesting reading ..

    "In the late 1930s it became clear that VW had used several patents of the Tatra factory. It's likely Porsche used these patents because of the enourmous presure from Hitler to develop the KdF-Wagen in a short time and on a tight budget. Just before the outbrake of WWII Tatra had ten legal claims against VW for infringement of patents. Although Porsche was about to make a settlement with Tatra, Hitler stopped him and told Porsche he would "solve this problem". Shortly after he invaded Czechoslovakia and gained control over the Tatra factory.

    After the war the KdF-Wagen went on to international stardom as the VW Beetle selling millions and millions of cars, while Tatra found itself stranded behind the iron curtain under a new Communist government who told Tatra what they could and couldn't produce and export. The lawsuit case of the patents was re-opened after the war and dragged on for years, ending in 1961 when VW eventually made a settlement paying Tatra a mere DM 3,000,000 .-. Ledwinka never received any money himself and died in relative obscurity in 1967. Porsche later admitted that during the construction of the KdF-Wagen in the 1930s he "occasionally looked over the shoulder of Ledwinka".

    http://www.tatra.demon.nl/cars_history_T97.htm

    Don't those above pics of floorpan and even dashboard bear an uncanny resemblance to 'Hitler's revenge'?

    Likewise Ledwinka's V570: http://www.tatra.demon.nl/cars_history_aerodynamic.htm

  12. #27
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    i dont realy understand wats really illegal to share data.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Imaj
    i dont realy understand wats really illegal to share data.
    Collusion can be done in a way that two or more competitors can change the market in unfare ways to the consumer. This can be done in different ways depending on the data shared.
    You can call me scott.

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