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Thread: FIA to ensure total Ferrari domination untill 2007

  1. #1
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    FIA to ensure total Ferrari domination untill 2007

    I have just read a lengthy interview with Paul Stoddard on the recent happenings behind the scenes in F1 (see here ) and I have been left completely disgusted at the attitude of Ferrari and the FIA.

    Here is the general outline of events.

    Untill mid 2004 Max Mosley and the FIA were strongly in support of the small teams, and cutting costs to ensure their future in the sport.

    However when the teams forming the GPWC announced that they did not want the FIA as its sanctioning body, things got nasty.

    With Ford having announced that it would be leaving F1, and Jordan and Minardi facing an uncertain future, the very weekend that the teams were travelling to Brazil, the FIA faxed through the new technical regulations (technically illegal, since the Concorde agreement offers no provision for such a thing) with the added sting that if the teams did not respond their answer would be assumed as being "yes". (Again, illegal).

    The teams had a hasty meeting, where all 10 teams were represented, and talked about the new proposals.

    A second meeting was scheduled, but Jean Todt, busy with Schumacher's big crash in testing, was accidentally not invited.

    He assumed that this was a dileberate ploy by the other teams, despite insistance that it was a genuine oversight, and refused to attend any other meetings that weekend.

    At the first meeting the teams all agreed that costs needed to be cut, and this could be done by restricting the number of days testing, and switching to a single tyre supplier, both moves opposed by Ferrari.

    The teams agreed that it was possible to cut 30% from the larger team's budgets by implementing these measures.

    Why did Ferrari oppose these measures?

    - Ferrari don't pay for testing, so restrictions wouldn't save them money.
    They are paid $30-35 million per year to test by Bridgestone, and own two test tracks, so they do not need to hire tracks.

    - Ferrari plan to dominate F1 untill the end of 2006, a plan which would be hampered by the reduction of tyre manufacturers.

    Ferrari's shameful attitude can be seen clearly in December.
    For the teams to pass a motion to get the single tyre supplier for 2006 - they needed to inform the two tyre companies officially before 31st Dec 2004.

    On December 8th Ferrari anounced that they were "absolutely opposed" to the single tyre move.

    On December 9th a meeting, at which the motion to introduce the single tyre for 2006 was to be passed by the 9 other teams, was suddenly cancelled by Max Mosely.

    On January 28th 2005 - past the deadline, knowing that Ferrari cannot lose their tyre advantage before the end of 2006, Ferrari are now "in favour" of the single tyre.

    You may recall that there have been two high profile meetings between teams and the FIA in Jan. 2005.

    The first, on the 25th, was a proposal by the 9 teams to sit down with all of their technical and engineering people and hammer out a plan to cut costs and increase the spectacle of F1 in the future.

    The second was on the 28th, which only Ferrari attended.
    In a cynical PR move Max Mosley announced that the 9 other teams were not committed to cutting costs because they didn't attend.

    The teams didn't attend because they believed that a meeting of such importance shouldn't be held at 2.30 on a Friday afternoon.

    Another indication of how closely Ferrari and the FIA are "working" to ensure domination is the introduction of the V8 engine for 2006.

    The 3.0 V10 is "protected" until the end of the Concorde agreement - 31st Dec 2007.

    The regulations that this is being changed under - 7.5 - is concerned with safety.

    This regulation states that the only aspect of "safety" that can be changed is with regards to passive safety, not things that affect performance - the engine for instance.

    Despite this the regulation has been pushed through by the World Motorsport Council anyway, despite the requirement for the WMC to consult the F1 Technical Working Group before introducing such measures not being observed.

    Guess which team are happy to run the V8, despite the massive increase in development costs?

    That's right - Ferrari!

    They are overjoyed because, according to Ross Brawn, they weren't convinced that they could keep their performance advantage provided by the engine untill 2008 - when the engine would have changed.

    So what are we left with?

    On one side there are the 9 teams:
    McLaren, Williams, Renault, BAR, Toyota, Red Bull, Jordan/Midland, Minardi and Sauber.

    All of which want to reduce expenditure and increase the spectacle of F1 by:
    - Limiting the no. of tyre companies to 1
    - Limiting the ammount of testing

    They are so commited and united that BAR apologised to the others after it accidentally ran a third car during testing.

    Because Ferrari are not joining in the voulentary restriction in testing they will be effectively racing themselves in their own "championship within a championship" in 2005, with different rules to the rest of the teams.

    On the other hand there are Ferrari and Max Mosley.
    Ferrari want to block any rules that stand in the way of them an total dominance between now and the end of 2006.

    Mosley wants to introduce new rules that have actually increased expenditure and have made the smaller teams even less competative than they were to begin with.

    Sorry for the lengthy post, but I hope this has given you a better insight into the workings of Scuderia Ferrari - Total domination whatever the cost.
    Even if that price is the F1 series itself.
    Thanks for all the fish

  2. #2
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    Winning is winning, as the F&F quote goes, and that must be the motto Ferrari Lives by.

    I seriously hope Ferrari live to regret their years of dominance, but at the same time i don't think it's fair to penalise them for being so good, thats like giving all the other teams a 50 Metre head start, even though you qualified 1st.

    give Ferrari their own Race Series, let the others fight it out over the remnants of F1, and that way the sponsors are happy, Ferrari and Mosley are happy, and the other teams will create better racing so that no one watches the Ferrari Race series.
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  3. #3
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    I agree that Ferrari should not be penalised for wanting to win, but what about the other teams?

    McLaren want to win, as do Williams, Renault, BAR and everyone else. They are willing to make the effort to reduce costs though.

    I Just think that Ferraris way of doing things is an utter disgrace.

    And it all appears to stem from two points - The "plan" to dominate untill 2007, and the fact that they think they were deliberately left out of a meeting, in which the other team bosses were fully expecting Todt to walk into at any moment.

    Pathetic?
    I think so.
    Thanks for all the fish

  4. #4
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    Petty, i'll pay.

    But Pathetic?

    Methinks Todt knew full well of the meeting, and has managed to turn this into a farce.

    If you can't argue the points, make the argument irrelevant.

    It's all well and good that the other teams want to win , but as it stands the team making the most investment into the sport (No matter how obscene it may be) is winning, you only get out what you put in.

    I am all for cutting costs and limiting testing, but if Ferrari have found a way to rort the system, then the system needs to change.

    Ferrari are petty, but only because they are used to getting their own way. What mr. Mosley needs to do is put his foot down and say no, it's a lack of discipline towards the teams attitudes that causes problems.
    <cough> www.charginmahlazer.tumblr.com </cough>

  5. #5
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    Coventry if what you're saying is true .... then they are screwing McLaren or Williams . to favor Ferrari . . . but are they screwing some small independent teams . ?? .not anymore . if they screw Williams or McLaren . they screw Mercedes and BMW .. and not only . they are screwing Renault, Honda, Toyota . just to make Ferrari win ?? . they are screwing 70% of the motoring industry just to make sure Ferrari wins ???

    that's a bit to much i'm afraid ..

    just admit it . Ferrari at the moment does a hell of a job . making super fast and reliable cars ..

    PS . as long as they can get the sponsorship money . they will spend every penny there is . if not with testing . building some new fancy wind tunnel .. buying supercomputers that will simulate some processes ..
    There is no terrible way of winning
    there is just winning

  6. #6
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    Paul Stoddard also has his own agenda when being interviewed, which greatly colors his opinions and statement of "fact". Ferrari has worked itself up from in mediocre team in the mid nineties to the absolute top. As far as I remember they did nothing that went against the rules. If they own two test tracks, that would stop no other team to go out and find one for itself. If Bridgestone is prepared to pay them more than 30 mln$ per year for tyre testing, than they simple made a clever deal. Other teams should try to get Michelin to pay such amounts or find another manufacturer to do such a thing.
    Rules changes are now thought to be invariably aiming at reducing the dominance of Ferrari, in the interest of the sport (and more likely the interest of the owners of the TV rights). When that is not always the case then people start shouting that FIA is backing Ferrari. I would not be surprised if many F1 fans would think that banning Ferrari would be the best option to revive interest in the Sport. But this is Business, which under slightly different rules.

    PS: Before you start asking, no I did not read Stoddard's interview.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  7. #7
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    Stoddart eating bull**** as usual . i almost stoped caring for Minardi since he came along .

    why would Ferrari accept a 10 day testing schedule .?? .. when Michelin will get 7*10 days . to just 10 for Bridgestone ?? . u can't count Jordan and Minardi .. and now they lost Sauber too .. it would have been too stupid to accept ..
    There is no terrible way of winning
    there is just winning

  8. #8
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    Personally i think they should hurry up and switch to a control slick tyre, there goes half the problem with overspending on testing doesnt it? And a return to slick tyres means a further reduction in downforce to encourage overtaking can be made.
    I am the Stig

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    Quote Originally Posted by fpv_gtho
    Personally i think they should hurry up and switch to a control slick tyre, there goes half the problem with overspending on testing doesnt it? And a return to slick tyres means a further reduction in downforce to encourage overtaking can be made.
    Slick tyres' effect on aerodynamics is negligible.

    Anyway, I think that Ferrari are a disappointment if what you've said is true. To consider domination higher than the existence of the sport is shameful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fa22_raptor
    Slick tyres' effect on aerodynamics is negligible.

    Anyway, To consider domination higher than the existence of the sport is shameful.

    Think twice about this statement. Sport is about winning, the times of Baron the Coubertin are long over. This particular branch of sport has already totally involved into capitalist business, where dominance is the main objective.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  11. #11
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    It is true that Ferrari were against the single tyre company idea until Max cancelled on Dec 9th at which it would have been implemented.

    Now that it cannot be done for another year, Ferrari suddenly support it.

    It is true that the 9 teams are deeply commited to making the sport genuinely better, except for Ferrari.

    Why would Ferrari accept the 10 day test schedule when they are paid $30 million to test by Bridgestone, and have no need to hire track time?

    You cannot say that it is "untrue" just because of Stoddard. He is representing the 9 teams, if they were not happy with what he is saying, surely they wouldn't let him be their representative?

    I can't imagine Ron Dennis letting Stoddard of all people saying this sort of thing if it weren't true.

    Quote Originally Posted by DasModell
    but are they screwing some small independent teams . ?? .not anymore
    Not screwing the small teams?

    So by forcing through technical changes like the V8, which is done for "safety" despite the fact that the particular regulation only concerns passive safety measures, rather than performance, at great expense to the small teams like Midland, Red Bull and Minardi and costing them even more performance than leaving the V10s in place isn't screwing them?

    Ferrari seem to be the only team happy with the V8, because they don't believe their V10 will remain competative, a direct quote from Brawn.

    The other teams all agree that to actually cut costs tyres and testing should be limited - not the no. of cylinders.
    Thanks for all the fish

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fa22_raptor
    Slick tyres' effect on aerodynamics is negligible.

    Anyway, I think that Ferrari are a disappointment if what you've said is true. To consider domination higher than the existence of the sport is shameful.
    he wasnt stating . that slicks effect aerodynamics . just with slicks they could get more grip mechanical . so they could cut on aerodynamics without influencing lap times . and plus . cars could theoretically race wheel to wheel ..

    the second point ..
    Sport is always about winning . even when your a kid playing with another . u want to win .
    Last edited by DasModell; 02-13-2005 at 07:37 AM.
    There is no terrible way of winning
    there is just winning

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coventrysucks
    Not screwing the small teams?

    So by forcing through technical changes like the V8, which is done for "safety" despite the fact that the particular regulation only concerns passive safety measures, rather than performance, at great expense to the small teams like Midland, Red Bull and Minardi and costing them even more performance than leaving the V10s in place isn't screwing them?

    Ferrari seem to be the only team happy with the V8, because they don't believe their V10 will remain competative, a direct quote from Brawn.

    The other teams all agree that to actually cut costs tyres and testing should be limited - not the no. of cylinders.

    WHAT SMALL TEAM ???

    please tell me exactly which small team are they screwing .. ???
    who builds engines and supports Williams, McLaren, BAR ..
    these are not small engine builders . these are not Judd ..

    you have to remember that exactly small teams . like Jordann, Sauber or Minardi . the V10 is eligible in 2006 ... with a restrictor ..

    the engine rules suck .. i admit . but it's not Ferrari that comes with these stupid ideea ..

    back to testing .. how would u think 2004 season would have looked . with the MP4/19 . blowing 2-3 engines per weekend .. ???
    with virtually no testing . Kimi would not have won a race last season . and neither would Williams ...
    There is no terrible way of winning
    there is just winning

  14. #14
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    not trying to turn this into a political dicussion.

    but it kinda reminds me on the recent incidents on the worldwide political stage. i will keep guessing who represents who upto you ! ( i wasnt trying to rap )
    ----R.I.P----
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    2003 - 2004

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DasModell
    WHAT SMALL TEAM ???
    Jordan/ Midland
    Minardi
    Red Bull

    So what if the V10 is eligable to race in 2006?
    Presumably it won't be in 2007, so they will still need to go to the expense of obtaining a V8 from somewhere.

    You don't think that after spending $$$ millions in developing a new engine suppliers such as Toyota will just hand a V8 over to Jordan for free?

    And these teams aren't paid $30 million to test at their own test tracks by Michelin, so testing, which is vital for these small teams, must be paid for by themselves.

    If the FIA doesn't agree to limit testing this harms those teams.

    If the small teams cannot test, and become even more uncompetative, they will leave the sport.

    That will leave the other teams having to race a third car out of their own pocket to keep a 20 car grid.

    That will lead to more teams leaving, due to unwanted expense.

    Will anyone be interested in the F1 championship when Ferrari is the only team left?
    Thanks for all the fish

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