A little disappointed

[6'bore]

Oh yeah, the chassis is great. It's just the 75BHP motor that isn't. BMW fitted it with a six-speeder so it's just about bearable, otherwise I'd be begging them to fit a same-age petrol engine at it's next service!

Are you being serious?

I've read through this thread and I cannot see why you are complaining. He is gonig to be using this car to teach people how to drive, hence your not going to be in it much, and why would he need a big engine when that is ll he is doing. Could you imagine new drivers in a powerful car?

Damn, what am I thinking? He should have got a Ferrari F430 so he could teach his other driving instructor friends a lesson

[Clivey]

Are you being serious?

I've read through this thread and I cannot see why you are complaining. He is gonig to be using this car to teach people how to drive, hence your not going to be in it much, and why would he need a big engine when that is ll he is doing. Could you imagine new drivers in a powerful car?

Damn, what am I thinking? He should have got a Ferrari F430 so he could teach his other driving instructor friends a lesson

The engine does have its upsides for driving instruction (47mpg) but seeing as BMW recently uprated it (now 88BHP), even they must have thought it the weakest link in the cars armour.

You'd understand if you tried to do what I did about a week ago...

...returning home from Derby, I joined the A38 from a large roundabout. There was a slow moving crane (about 20 mph) in the left hand lane so I had to use the right (not the best idea normally because the road takes a sharp turn and if you'd driven on it you'd know it can be dangerous with people coming off the roundabout in the fast lane, realising they haven't got the acceleration they need and swerving back to the left), I was still in fourth (6 speed gearbox) with a transit van (typical "white van man" driver) trying to park in the boot of my dad's car. I gave it the boot and held onto the gear before selecting fifth.

Now, with a modern diesel (turbo or commonrail), you'd expect that if you kept the revs high enough (i.e. holding onto the gear before changing) then you'd be able to ensure that it stays in its powerband, allowing better acceleration in the next gear. It didn't happen and even though I held onto fourth, when I changed into fifth the change in pace was so dramatic that I think the transit driver needed a change of underpants. The car struggled away trying to accelerate with a queue forming up behind us. A discussion later on with my dad revealed that I'd made no mistake, he said that the car was normally "like that".

As well as this, on a cold morning especially, if you don't give then engine between 2,000 and 2,500 revs (remember it's a diesel so that's quite high) when pulling away from some junctions, it WILL leave you stuck in the middle of the road when the next car appears around the corner.

The engine's also overly loud and compared to the petrol, very unrefined. I've never heard this on another MINI but from the outside of the car our air conditioning fan sounds like a Harrier AV-8 performing VTOL when the car's in a car park or stationary at lights.

We did test drive the petrol (and at 90 BHP it's not even as powerful as the AA's Ford Focus fleet) and it's much, much better. The diesel's only saving grace is it's economy, there's NO WAY we'd have bought it if it didn't return 47mpg (official figures are 51.5 combined) for us.

When you come to learn to drive you'll realise that what a learner needs isn't an underpowered car, it's an easy-to-drive car. There is a vast difference. But then again I wouldn't expect you to understand what that means at 15...

The MINI is my dad's only car (my mum drives a Corsa 1.4 SXi) and so yes, I will be in it quite a lot. Don't get me wrong, the engine isn't "bad", it's just nowhere near as good as the petrol.

[Clivey]

Its probably easier to drive than what I'm learning in, a brand new 1.6 Ford Focus, its far too sensitive. I coughed. It stalled.

It's too sensitive in the build quality department, you coughed and probably blew half of the dashborad apart. That's why it stalled.

I know someone (used to be friends but he got in with the wrong crowd) who has a Focus, the very first time I was given a lift in it the radio's LCD display went completely dead, as did the air con.

[Radoman]

OK, I don't know why I didn't post this earlier but we've had the car since late June and I am now learning to drive (or is that to pass an exam that bears no resemblance to the real world?) in it. I'll leave you guys to comment on this pic (I'll write a review on the car tomorrow and see if I can get some better photos inc. "Egg Nogging it")

Wheel covers......

WHY????

Hey, you're still lucky: my first car, and the one I'm bombing around in now (MR2 off the road for the winter) is a 1987 VW fox GL

4-speed. power nothing. a clutch that could almost pass off as one out of the older GMC pick-ups I occasionally drive at work. about 90 horsepower, maybe less, and rust beginning to show up down south.

I took off the hubcaps on mine because hubcaps (wheel covers) are the work of satan (dispicably ugly and tasteless no matter what).

[Clivey]

Wheel covers......

WHY????

Because new drivers can't judge the size of the car and end up hitting the kerb quite a bit (British roads are narrow), alloys would get absolutely obliterated. With wheel covers, (especially from Halfords) if one gets smashed off you just stick another one on and keep going.

It's funny to see instructors using cars with alloys and the front nearside wheel's always knackered. Even if a wheel takes a big hit on our MINI, new ones only cost £40 whereas a new alloy would be hundreds.

[RazaBlade]

I learnt to drive in a 1.0L Micra, as my mums car is a 1.3 Micra, so my dad made the sensible choice that it would be easier for me once Id passed. I tell you what, the 1.0 was just about pushable, I remember so many times I had my foot flat on the floor and it was still just about accelerating! Good times in it though...

Ive only driven the 1.3 once, and it was such a huge difference! In the 1.0, when you pressed the accelerator, there was about 1-2 inches of travel that did nothing, then it would respond, whereas in my mums, you tap it and its a lot more responsive.

On the talk of instructor cars, my instructor at the time (about 2 years ago now) was talking of replacing his 1.0 Micra with a 1.2 Seat (cant remember which one, but a small one) to give the learners a bit more to play with!!

[henk4]

The engine does have its upsides for driving instruction (47mpg) but seeing as BMW recently uprated it (now 88BHP), even they must have thought it the weakest link in the cars armour.

You'd understand if you tried to do what I did about a week ago...

...returning home from Derby, I joined the A38 from a large roundabout. There was a slow moving crane (about 20 mph) in the left hand lane so I had to use the right (not the best idea normally because the road takes a sharp turn and if you'd driven on it you'd know it can be dangerous with people coming off the roundabout in the fast lane, realising they haven't got the acceleration they need and swerving back to the left), I was still in fourth (6 speed gearbox) with a transit van (typical "white van man" driver) trying to park in the boot of my dad's car. I gave it the boot and held onto the gear before selecting fifth.

Now, with a modern diesel (turbo or commonrail), you'd expect that if you kept the revs high enough (i.e. holding onto the gear before changing) then you'd be able to ensure that it stays in its powerband, allowing better acceleration in the next gear. It didn't happen and even though I held onto fourth, when I changed into fifth the change in pace was so dramatic that I think the transit driver needed a change of underpants. The car struggled away trying to accelerate with a queue forming up behind us. A discussion later on with my dad revealed that I'd made no mistake, he said that the car was normally "like that".

As well as this, on a cold morning especially, if you don't give then engine between 2,000 and 2,500 revs (remember it's a diesel so that's quite high) when pulling away from some junctions, it WILL leave you stuck in the middle of the road when the next car appears around the corner.

The engine's also overly loud and compared to the petrol, very unrefined. I've never heard this on another MINI but from the outside of the car our air conditioning fan sounds like a Harrier AV-8 performing VTOL when the car's in a car park or stationary at lights.

We did test drive the petrol (and at 90 BHP it's not even as powerful as the AA's Ford Focus fleet) and it's much, much better. The diesel's only saving grace is it's economy, there's NO WAY we'd have bought it if it didn't return 47mpg (official figures are 51.5 combined) for us.

When you come to learn to drive you'll realise that what a learner needs isn't an underpowered car, it's an easy-to-drive car. There is a vast difference. But then again I wouldn't expect you to understand what that means at 15...

The MINI is my dad's only car (my mum drives a Corsa 1.4 SXi) and so yes, I will be in it quite a lot. Don't get me wrong, the engine isn't "bad", it's just nowhere near as good as the petrol.

A couple of comments.

1. You can probably easily uprate your engine to new BMW specs as well. You should at least ask the dealership about it, and then casually mention that the 7 series V8 was recently remapped and that existing owners could bring their car to the dealership and have the same upgrade for free.

2. I can not complete grab the story about the Derby roundabout, but assuming you did 20-25 mph in fourth gear to overtake the crane, then you might not expect earth shaking accelaration when you floor it. It is still a small engine, but just imagine what a similar sized petrol engine had done in fourth gear. Even though it is a diesel (and it is turbo AND commonrail, not turbo or commonrail ) you still may need to use the box from time to time. And also don't underestimate the speed of the white van brigade. An empty VW bus with a prepped-up TDI will blow your mini away. I recently had one behind me on the German motorway (it was a blue one though ) and I needed to speed up to about 180 kph until I saw it giving up. Before that he urgently wanted me to move.

3. I absolutely would punish you if you would rev a cold diesel to 2000-2500 just to get moving. When started it will run a little bit over idle, providing enough power to use the clutch ONLY to get rolling. Don't even touch the throttle. I can get into third gear, just by using the clucth only, on the idle revs, which means that the car will happily run along in idle, in 2nd and 3rd gear, which is rather convenient especially when you have to deal with traffic jams.

Apparently BMW want to stop installing Toyota engines as of 2008 and switch to PSA/Ford engines. Most likely a sensible move, the more so as PSA and BMW are already working together to develop petrol engines

[6'bore]

Now, with a modern diesel (turbo or commonrail), you'd expect that if you kept the revs high enough (i.e. holding onto the gear before changing) then you'd be able to ensure that it stays in its powerband

Thos comment clearly shows me that you have no idea where the powerband of a diesel actually is. It's all in the low revs. Rev most diesels to around 3,500rpm and they are out of puff, hence why most of them have 6speed gear boxes because if the don't teir topspeeds are relativly low.

[kingofthering]

I was in the US last year and was told that you could learn to drive at 16 there...? How are you taught, do you learn at school or something or is the reason that many americans don't know how to drive (properly) because they haven't been taught? I must say the freeways around LA are lethal, you even have "off-ramps" at both sides of the road and people overtake on both sides as well (then come together in the middle lane!!! ) My dad was in Texas in the 80's and hired a Ford Pinto...he said it was one of the worst vehicles he had ever driven and most american market cars communicate no feel to the driver partly becuase of soft springs (more body roll than a football). On the other hand though, the US has some of the best vehicles and drivers EVER...I drove a Yukon XL and was amazed that it doesn't roll around as much as other 4x4s (maybe it had something to do with the 20" chrome rims on each corner weighing it down)

yeah, you can take a course on driving in high school.

[Clivey]

1. You can probably easily uprate your engine to new BMW specs as well. You should at least ask the dealership about it, and then casually mention that the 7 series V8 was recently remapped and that existing owners could bring their car to the dealership and have the same upgrade for free.

Interesting, VERY interesting...

2. I can not complete grab the story about the Derby roundabout, but assuming you did 20-25 mph in fourth gear to overtake the crane, then you might not expect earth shaking accelaration when you floor it.

Here's a deal for you...try to do 20-25mph (in 4th) in a Mini One D then see what happens, I tried to today for a laugh! I was doing around 50 when I changed up to fifth (holding onto the gears for better acceleration with that prat behind me) I kept the revs high enough in fourth for them to still be in the powerband in fifth when I changed up. This is what I meant before.

Thos comment clearly shows me that you have no idea where the powerband of a diesel actually is. It's all in the low revs. Rev most diesels to around 3,500rpm and they are out of puff, hence why most of them have 6speed gear boxes because if the don't teir topspeeds are relativly low.

I would agree with you on most current diesels, however, this one needs a few revs to get going...it's only a 1.4 litre diesel without it's turbo (which you need to engage to get any acceleration at all), the turbo's only really with you after between 1,500 and 2,000 revs. This is why I ensured the revs didn't die down when I changed up into fifth.

It is still a small engine, but just imagine what a similar sized petrol engine had done in fourth gear.

Well, my mum's Corsa 1.4 would certainly not have hung around like the Mini (remember, 50mph in 4th) If I was doing as you said 20-25mph then I would agree with you wholeheartedly.

Even though it is a diesel (and it is turbo AND commonrail, not turbo or commonrail ) you still may need to use the box from time to time. And also don't underestimate the speed of the white van brigade. An empty VW bus with a prepped-up TDI will blow your mini away. I recently had one behind me on the German motorway (it was a blue one though ) and I needed to speed up to about 180 kph until I saw it giving up. Before that he urgently wanted me to move.

I realise that Commonrail diesel engines are turbocharged, I was just making the distinction between normal turbodiesels (TD) and commonrails (CTD)...if commonrails weren't also turbos then what's the "T" doing in the Astra CDTI's name?

3. I absolutely would punish you if you would rev a cold diesel to 2000-2500 just to get moving. When started it will run a little bit over idle, providing enough power to use the clutch ONLY to get rolling. Don't even touch the throttle. I can get into third gear, just by using the clucth only, on the idle revs, which means that the car will happily run along in idle, in 2nd and 3rd gear, which is rather convenient especially when you have to deal with traffic jams.

I meant that I have to get 2,000 revs AFTER getting the car moving to speed it up when joining the main road at the bottom of my hill, if you don't speed up on that road, you'll get hit - it's as simple as that.

Apparently BMW want to stop installing Toyota engines as of 2008 and switch to PSA/Ford engines. Most likely a sensible move, the more so as PSA and BMW are already working together to develop petrol engines

*GROAN* At least Toyota engines are reliable, I wouldn't really want a Ford engine in a MINI. BMW and PSA? That's a strange combination...judging by the recent reliability record of french cars (Peugeot especially) this could bring the quality of BMW engines down, unless it's PSA that are learning / leaching from BMW...have you got the full details on the deals going on between these manufacturers?

[Blue Supra]

i learnt in a ST185 Toyota Celica, it was crap.

too small, not enough visibility, stupid low clutch wheras my own car has a high one so i crunched it a lot... yeh, i stopped using that car after 3 lessons and went and sat the test in my own car and got it first go.

[Clivey]

i learnt in a ST185 Toyota Celica, it was crap.

too small, not enough visibility, stupid low clutch wheras my own car has a high one so i crunched it a lot... yeh, i stopped using that car after 3 lessons and went and sat the test in my own car and got it first go.

What's your location? UK driving tests are, compared to most countries, rock solid hard...I couldn't imagine anyone learning and / or taking a test in a Celica over here. The biggest and most powerful car I've seen in the DSA test centre is one of the BSM Astra 1.6's...

[Blue Supra]

Australia.

its by no means a walk in the park.

We have bigger everything then you though so we have bigger cars, people can learn in Landcruisers if thats what their family has and take the driving test in that.

i got mine in my old Datsun Stanza... i cant wait to get that car back on the road for some old school carby powered fun!

[henk4]

I realise that Commonrail diesel engines are turbocharged, I was just making the distinction between normal turbodiesels (TD) and commonrails (CTD)...if commonrails weren't also turbos then what's the "T" doing in the Astra CDTI's name?

All diesels are turbocharged these days, although I think there is still and entry VW SDi model. Most importantly though all modern diesels are directly injected. Commonrail is just an indication of the way the fuel is fed to the cylinder. Common rail is applied by almost every brand, except VW, where they have a pump-nozzle system which allows even higher injection pressures. Nevertheless, also VW will switch to CR diesels over the coming 5 years, as these can be better controlled in the emission and noise departments.

"Normal", indirectly injected, turbo diesels are a thing of the past.

Names of cars are marketing gimmicks. You can be assuring that the Mercedes CDi engines do have a turbo, although there is no "T" in the type designation. All PSA products are called HDi, all have turbos.

[Clivey]

All diesels are turbocharged these days, although I think there is still and entry VW SDi model. Most importantly though all modern diesels are directly injected. Commonrail is just an indication of the way the fuel is fed to the cylinder. Common rail is applied by almost every brand, except VW, where they have a pump-nozzle system which allows even higher injection pressures. Nevertheless, also VW will switch to CR diesels over the coming 5 years, as these can be better controlled in the emission and noise departments.

Yeah we still get the SDi, there's really no need to explain all this, I already know...what I meant was that I was just trying to distinguish between standard turbodiesels such as our old Astra LS ECO4 and commonrails such as our Mini One D.

Names of cars are marketing gimmicks. You can be assuring that the Mercedes CDi engines do have a turbo, although there is no "T" in the type designation. All PSA products are called HDi, all have turbos.

The reason I used the Astra as an example is because I do know that the "C" does stand for "Commonrail", the older diesels had "DTI" badging. This changed when Vauxhall made the switch to that technology. That was he only reason I chose to give that example.