In Court today :: FIA vs BAR-Honda

[labomba]

As reported on;
http://www.autosport-atlas.com/news.aspx?id=43869&s=5

Formula One's ruling body has asked the Court of Appeal in Paris to throw the BAR team out of this year's Formula One Championship.

The FIA, in their evidence dossier, also recommended a penalty of at least one million Euro.

"The FIA asks the Court to exclude the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team from the 2005 Formula One World Championship and to fine the team at least one million Euros," said the FIA.

The hearing is expected to finish at 2pm local time.

Oh bugger!

[drakkie]

WHY ??? what have they done to receive such a big penalty ?

[fa22_raptor]

WHY ??? what have they done to receive such a big penalty ?

Exactly what I was thinking...

[Wouter Melissen]

WHY ??? what have they done to receive such a big penalty ?

Breaking the rules on purpose has a maximum penalty as described above. However, it is highly unlikely that BAR will get that.

[labomba]

The latest...
Should also bring anyone who wasn't aware into the picture.
again from:
http://www.autosport-atlas.com/news.aspx?id=43876&s=5

FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer has revealed the governing body was aware of the existence of the second tank in the BAR car since the Malaysian Grand Prix, the second race of the season.

"It is not a secret mechanism, it is an additional tank and we were aware of it since the Malaysia GP," said Bauer at the Paris hearing.

"At the Malaysian GP we did a general inspection of all fuel cells of all teams, there was a request made in TWG (Technical Working Group) on Feb 4 to check that the right material is used.

"We also checked the extremities of the fuel cell and the regulation concerning the size of the fuel cell."

Formula One's governing body earlier asked the appeal hearing to throw BAR out of this year's World Championship if they are found guilty of having cheated.

Jenson Button's car was found to be underweight after all the liquids were drained out of his car following the San Marino Grand Prix.

There were suspicions that Button's car was running light at Imola or had a second, concealed, fuel tank.

Bauer had informed the race stewards that he believed Button was able to run below the minimum weight limit during the race, although BAR said they proved their car had been running within the rules all the time.

After all liquids were extracted from the car after the race, however, the 007 was found to be underweight.

BAR claimed they need at least 6kg of fuel in the car for it to operate - but their current collector weighs 9kg. They claimed with less than 5.29kg the car would start malfunctioning.

"The car required fuel in the collector to work..that is the position we use for our own weight calculations," said technical director Geoff Willis.

"Our collector is 9kg, because it was designed in response to the introduction of our high pressure fuel system, track testing has suggested we need a minimum of 6kg in the tank, those tests conducted pre-season there may be circuits in the calendar that require more than that so we needed more than that.

"The purpose of the fuel in the car is for its physical properties as a fluid to allow pumps to work…and its properties as a fuel, there are a number of fluids in the car like oil and water which contribute mass to weight of the car…so it is not a ballast."

Willis also insisted the team haven't tried to go against the rules, as the Honda-powered squad face exclusion from this year's Championship.

"It is a common culture through team of integrity and fairness, and I have no doubt that there is no-one in the team who does not have the same integrity of keeping with the rules," said Willis before a break during the hearing in Paris.

[Matra et Alpine]

BAR claimed they need at least 6kg of fuel in the car for it to operate - but their current collector weighs 9kg. They claimed with less than 5.29kg the car would start malfunctioning.

"The car required fuel in the collector to work..that is the position we use for our own weight calculations," said technical director Geoff Willis.

The telling part.

yep, they've clearly been caught cheating adn NOW trygin to claim that 6kg of fuel are NECESSARY and don't fall into the auspices of thus being fuel is trying it on big style.

THIS coudl be seriously large punishment, but I'd hate to see them banned. Maybe they dont' get to win points woudl be sufficient ??

[labomba]

Update from the Courtroom
http://www.autosport-atlas.com/news.aspx?id=43877&s=5

BAR-Honda claim they were not asked to do a full drain-out at the San Marino Grand Prix, rejecting suggestions that they may have hidden the additional fuel later found in the car's extra fuel cell.

Testifying at the FIA's Court of Appeal in Paris, the team's technical director Geoff Willis said: "The request we had to do was a lifted pump out. We have never been asked to do a full pump-put."

Willis also denied objecting to the request of draining out the tank in full.

"I am never aware of having objected to the FIA of any inspection of the car," he said.

According to Willis, BAR need at least 6kg of fuel in the car to make it operate - with less than 5.29kg the car start malfunctioning.
"The car required fuel in the collector to work," Willis said. "That is the position we use for our own weight calculations."

He also rejected accusations of cheating, stating: "It is a common culture through team of integrity and fairness, and I have no doubt that there is no-one in the team who does not have the same integrity of keeping with the rules."

[labomba]

More...
http://www.autosport-atlas.com/news.aspx?id=43878&s=5

Formula One's governing body accused BAR of cheating on Wednesday and asked an appeal court to throw the team out of the 2005 Championship.

"The team set out deliberately to gain an illegitimate and unfair advantage over other teams, an act prejudicial to the interests of the competition and to the interests of motor sports generally," the FIA said.

"The FIA asks the court to exclude the Lucky Strike BAR Honda team from the 2005 Formula One World Championship and to fine the team at least one million euros ($1.29 million)," the International Automobile Federation (FIA) said in a dossier of evidence presented to a Paris appeal court hearing.

BAR's Jenson Button finished third in the San Marino Grand Prix on April 24, scoring the Honda-powered team's first points of the year.

The FIA are appealing against a decision by race stewards, who spent six hours scrutinising Button's car after the race, to uphold the result despite suspicions BAR competed with an underweight car and may have used a hidden, secondary fuel tank.

BAR, who have denied any wrongdoing, asked the court to dismiss the FIA appeal.

Their lawyer David Pannick QC said that such a sanction "would be manifestly disproportionate as would be any exclusion from future events".

BAR technical director Geoff Willis restated the team's position that they had done nothing wrong.

"At no time would I allow anybody in the team to do anything illegal, we have a common culture of integrity and fairness," said the Briton.

The hearing continues. A verdict is expected on Thursday.

[fpv_gtho]

Breaking the rules on purpose has a maximum penalty as described above. However, it is highly unlikely that BAR will get that.

Surely thats not the maximum penalty though, just one years exclusion. I dont really know what to think, previously for something like the V8 Supercars here, any penalty for something like this would only affect the races were the rules were broke, so then the first 4 rounds in this case. But since mid last year theyve taken the FIA's strategy of immediately disqualifying a car for not passing post race scrutineering etc. So then in this case, i wouldnt put it past them to ban BAR for this season. Afterall at last years US GP, both Williams and Toyota's were disqualified for fairly simple reasons

[henk4]

There has been the Tyrrell case in the past (1983?) when the car was clearly below the minimum weight (it was the only car still running a normally aspirated Cosworth while the others all had turbo engines), to compensate for this, during the last refuelling the tank was partly filled up with leaden balls. They got caught, lost all their points and got a season ban.

[RazaBlade]

damn....BAR look to be in some trouble! Tmrws the big verdict then. One thing that I haven't grasped yet, why was it just Buttons car they found with this problem, not Sato's as well?? Surely, if it was a fuel pump thing they would have it in both cars...

[labomba]

Something very fishy is going on....

[labomba]

Interestingly..
If they do get banned. Then some teams will be obliged to race a third car in order to raise the field above the 20 car minimum, as stipulated by the Concorde agreement.

[blackcat77]

The FIA is doing everything they can possibly do to drive me away from the sport that I once loved. The fact is that the BAR was never underweight during the race, and the idea of banning a team for an entire season and fining them $1M+ for a minor infraction like this is ridiculous.

They're just doing this because they CAN, and it's wrong.

[Matra et Alpine]

The FIA is doing everything they can possibly do to drive me away from the sport that I once loved. The fact is that the BAR was never underweight during the race, and the idea of banning a team for an entire season and fining them $1M+ for a minor infraction like this is ridiculous.

They're just doing this because they CAN, and it's wrong.

No they're doing it because BAR broke the rules.

It's plain, it's simple.

Willis' defence almost admits that openly by arguing that the fuel is liek oil and water and is present and isn't "ballast", that the 6kg was "necessary". Sorry fuel is FUEL !! Hoist by own petard

Which side of the fence were you on with all the Ferrari debacles the last 3 years ????