to shuffle, or not to shuffle

[Lagonda]

Care to elaborate?

Sure. That card reader you are talking about takes compact flash and then there is always this: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nMore=M9861G/A
Just connect your camera to the iPod and transfer the pics !

[my porsche]

lady and gentlemen, i think matra might have just gotten owned, ill await final judgement

[spi-ti-tout]

lady and gentlemen, i think matra might have just gotten owned, ill await final judgement

Do you think so......?
Now THIS is one battle that ('s worth following that) might not just end up in Matra winning in 2 posts

[Matra et Alpine]

Please go back and read my comments and see try a little harder to get the points made.

FIRST -- that the "technology" is that the Apple has NOTHING "new or innovative" including the software interface.

SECOND -- that you need to carry cables around if you want to sync to multiple machines. EVery PC now has memory card readers. It wasn't a contradcitoin, it was pointing out that claiming "pesky cards" is silly given the alternative is "pesky cables" Espsecially as cards are STANDARD and Apple cables arent'

THIRD -- ease of use. This one has been done to death in all the reviews. Apple users claim "easier" and yet there is NOTHING objective oabout that. So it's like the PC v Apple debate. They are both easy to use

FOURTH -- screens. Apple are NOT "innovating" any more. Hence comment on bigger/better screens or even on the simplest of video options or GPS mapping etc etc.

FIFTH -- being deliberately obtuse in a debate is pointless and isn't clever Do you REALLY think the drives are capable of continous use during the rough handling on horseback ? The hardware is NOT as relibale under shock loadsin as solid-state. Kind of negated by the extended insurance IFF they are willing to pay out on doing excessive things. ( eg Mobile phone insurance in the UK will typically pay out ONCE on "accidental" damage and NOT AGAIN )

SIXTH -- when someone says it's as easy as all of them, that include the iPod. You clearly just want an argument. We've a Monty Python thread for that

SEVENTH -- moving music. IF you have to manage your music to move it between server and machien then you are already performing the logical act of the memory card. Just not the physical. So the memory card isnt' an issue.
PS: Everybodies software has the equivalent of iTunes. The "unique selling point" on the original iPod was it STORED it ALL. So no longer a USP for the shuffle.

EIGHT -- the technology, manufacturing and reliability of devices doesnt' follow the rules of 10-15 years ago. EVERYTHING is made in the same foundries, assembled in the same clean rooms, built on the same assembly lines using the same component choices. Where these are is irrelevant as they are now placed wherever it's cheapest. It doenst' affect what the manufacturing unit makes

NINE - yep, the add-on market for the Apple is clearly stronger than the rest. My favourite was the radio transmitter saving the $300 kit for the car BUT these all exist for others now. It's the "designer" stuff that's still "unique" and probbably giving everyone the highest profits Which "add-on" is there that others don't have ?? I can name a few for Apples Like GPS and mapping Most folks don't want to carry 8 pieces of "gadgetry" when they coudl carry one

TEN -- watching video. Who do you think watches video WALKING ? Do you really think that's the market and the folks who own one do that ? Dreaming. It's for sitting waiting for the bus/train/taxi Did you think the Gameboy was a naff idea coz nobody woudl play games walking down the street. Which video units have you seen ? Some of them are the size of the original iPod - though accepted MOST of them are larger as they try to deliver larger SCREENS - just like the Sony PSP does

ELEVEN -- the "fanboy" comment was meant to be inciteful to realise that most Apple owners have bought it for the image and the PR. Just as most Skyline fanboys have never actually bothered to know the alternatives

That's a whole load of points

[my porsche]

damnit, spi-ti-tout, were looking for lagonda to come back from his early lead to defeat matra in less than 5 post, hes running the longshot, down 100:1, but can he make it? back to you s.t.t.!

[spi-ti-tout]

damnit, spi-ti-tout, were looking for lagonda to come back from his early lead to defeat matra in less than 5 post, hes running the longshot, down 100:1, but can he make it? back to you s.t.t.!

I definetly think Lagonda's got the potential to answer back, though not necessarily defeat the techno-wiz Matra, I think we'd better be putting the ratio on a 100:25 soldier, just to be on the good side of the Ak-47.

Your call, m_p

[Rockefella]

No one will win this argument, Matra will continue to argue his points, and Lagonda will do likewise, but I believe Lagonda squeezed out the victory.

[my porsche]

I definetly think Lagonda's got the potential to answer back, though not necessarily defeat the techno-wiz Matra, I think we'd better be putting the ratio on a 100:25 soldier, just to be on the good side of the Ak-47.

Your call, m_p

thanks stt, yeah hes definately got the potential, now the question is, will he be able to overcome the imtimidation of an 11,000post arguing machine? i think if he sets his mind to it, and gethers enough facts he just might be able to come back with a strong case and maybe even win this thing.

[Lagonda]

Please go back and read my comments and see try a little harder to get the points made.

Why ? I read them, interpreted them and responded to them. If my reponse is not what you like to hear then so be it. That's what a debate is for.

FIRST -- that the "technology" is that the Apple has NOTHING "new or innovative" including the software interface.

The whole concept of the wheel with the turning and selecting was and is innovative + the way the menus are made is unlike anything else out there and much easier to use. I'm not talking about play, fwd and rewind buttons or hard drives.

SECOND -- that you need to carry cables around if you want to sync to multiple machines. It wasn't a contradcitoin, it was pointing out that claiming "pesky cards" is silly given the alternative is "pesky cables" Espsecially as cards are STANDARD and Apple cables arent'

So what's the problem if the alternative has exactly the same "peskyness" ? It doesn't make the cards better, does it ? I don't see what's non-standard about FireWire or USB tough. You will of course tell me that you mean the connector on the iPod itself but what does that matter ? If you have the iPod then you have the cables.

EVery PC now has memory card readers.

This is abosolutely not true. But every PC sure has FireWire or/and USB.

THIRD -- ease of use. This one has been done to death in all the reviews. Apple users claim "easier" and yet there is NOTHING objective oabout that. So it's like the PC v Apple debate. They are both easy to use

Yeah well, for what it's worth it's not only "Apple-users" that say this. I don't know a lot of people who say that their non-iPod is easier to use than my iPod.
You can judge usability pretty objectively if you want to.

I'm not going into windows vs. Mac OS

FOURTH -- screens. Apple are NOT "innovating" any more. Hence comment on bigger/better screens or even on the simplest of video options or GPS mapping etc etc.

They are not "innovating" because there is no need to add better screens or video options. The market does not care too much about portable video at this moment. It will care in the near future, but not yet.
And GPS mapping ?! It's a music player for crying out loud.

FIFTH -- being deliberately obtuse in a debate is pointless and isn't clever Do you REALLY think the drives are capable of continous use during the rough handling on horseback ? The hardware is NOT as relibale under shock loadsin as solid-state. Kind of negated by the extended insurance IFF they are willing to pay out on doing excessive things. ( eg Mobile phone insurance in the UK will typically pay out ONCE on "accidental" damage and NOT AGAIN )

Deliberatly obtuse ? Leave the ad hominem please.

Hard drives sure are capable of those short read sequences yes. It's a read sequence which is different to a write sequene. Writing during heavy chock can indeed cause much damage but writing not so. Add to that that the vibration is not constant and always different. Even while rallying the thing has time enough to fill up it's 25 minute buffer. But it IS true that solid state devices are more resistant to this. Apple even advertises on their website that you jog with an iPod, and I can personally vouch for that. I do it and there's nothing wrong with mine

That said, what does it matter ? What percentage of people abuses his/her music player that much ? VERY little. Those who do will require and get a purpose built device.

And yes Apple Care does cover hard drive crashes.

SIXTH -- when someone says it's as easy as all of them, that include the iPod. You clearly just want an argument. We've a Monty Python thread for that

Say what ?

SEVENTH -- moving music. IF you have to manage your music to move it between server and machien then you are already performing the logical act of the memory card. Just not the physical. So the memory card isnt' an issue.

Is there software that easily/automatically builds (easy to use and comprehend!) directory structures and moves your music into the correct folder so that you can copy it over manually ?
Remember, you are a guy who knows something about computers and someone who has an other idea of "hard" or "easy" than most people have when it comes to tech stuff. You can't imagine how illiterate most people are when it comes to computers. So why the grudge against iTunes which does it all in an easy package?

PS: Everybodies software has the equivalent of iTunes. The "unique selling point" on the original iPod was it STORED it ALL. So no longer a USP for the shuffle.

Like what software ? Please don't tell me that Musicmatch is easy to use because I'm going to burst out in tears

The USP of the iPod shuffle is that it's as easy to use as possible. 512MB or 1GB is such a ridiculously small amount of capacity that you do not need advanced controls to select playlists etc. because with a few clicks you can get the song you want. The iPod shuffle doesn't WANT to be a store-all device.
You plug in the shuffle, push the autofill button in iTunes, disconnect it and start listening.

I must admit that I don't like the lack of a screen on the shuffle because sometimes I'd like to see the name of the artist performing the current track.

[quote]EIGHT -- the technology, manufacturing and reliability of devices doesnt' follow the rules of 10-15 years ago. EVERYTHING is made in the same foundries, assembled in the same clean rooms, built on the same assembly lines using the same component choices. Where these are is irrelevant as they are now placed wherever it's cheapest. It doenst' affect what the manufacturing unit makes[/]Then why does my iPod mini "feels" like it's tougher than the equivalent that Creative makes ? I'm talking about the casings of the devices, the tactile feel. I'm not talking about the internal hardware, that's all the same crap. Altough Apple does have an exclusive contact with PortalPlayer as far as I know (the platform/chip that powers the iPod).

NINE - yep, the add-on market for the Apple is clearly stronger than the rest. My favourite was the radio transmitter saving the $300 kit for the car BUT these all exist for others now. It's the "designer" stuff that's still "unique" and probbably giving everyone the highest profits Which "add-on" is there that others don't have ?? I can name a few for Apples Like GPS and mapping

Again, GPS mapping on a music player ?! That's like a washing machine that makes my breakfast. Really.

Most folks don't want to carry 8 pieces of "gadgetry" when they coudl carry one

Because most people don't want a big complicated mother of a gadget and they also don't need 8 add-ons.

TEN -- watching video. Who do you think watches video WALKING ? Do you really think that's the market and the folks who own one do that ? Dreaming. It's for sitting waiting for the bus/train/taxi Did you think the Gameboy was a naff idea coz nobody woudl play games walking down the street. Which video units have you seen ? Some of them are the size of the original iPod - though accepted MOST of them are larger as they try to deliver larger SCREENS - just like the Sony PSP does

I can accept this argument a bit. But, let's say you are playing a game on your gameboy while waiting for the bus. The bus arrives, so you interrupt your game to get on the bus and buy your ticket. Then you start playing again, the bus stops you interrupt again to get off and so on. Now do you like watching a movie that gets interrupted all the time ? I know I don't, it's like commercials on TV, it's horrible. And the small screen is just awefull IMHO for watching movies. There is a point where the screens stop growing because otherwise the things won't be portable anymore. Watching a movie is something completely different than listening to music or playing a casual game. It requires much more attention.

ELEVEN -- the "fanboy" comment was meant to be inciteful to realise that most Apple owners have bought it for the image and the PR. Just as most Skyline fanboys have never actually bothered to know the alternatives

I do very well know the alternatives. And I don't have Apple computers and iPods because of image and PR. But because I've used them all of my life and they are superior in every way for me, maybe not for you. Nothing could make me use something like windows personally. It makes me cry when using it at work, it's soo counterproductive that it isn't even funny anymore. But that's a whole other discussion.

I'm off to sleep now. It's waay too late now and tomorrow I'm heading to the beach. With my iPod

Good night.

[Lagonda]

thanks stt, yeah hes definately got the potential, now the question is, will he be able to overcome the imtimidation of an 11,000post arguing machine? i think if he sets his mind to it, and gethers enough facts he just might be able to come back with a strong case and maybe even win this thing.

Lol, are we placing bets already ? 'tis not a competition people. Just a debate.

[my porsche]

OH! a wonderful counter by lagonda, lets see what peter has in store for his next move.

[my porsche]

Lol, are we placing bets already ? 'tis not a competition people. Just a debate.

we might as well get intertainment

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I've had some direct comparison experiance with music players.

My Sister's Boyfriend recently came home with the Sony 20g music player, I tooled around with it for a few minutes, and I couldn't work the control, I learnt how to, but whether it's because of his setup or the actual player, I ended up getting so lost in the menus I had to reset it to get me back to the start.

In comparison he grabbed my iPod, he's never touched it before (I haven't let him....) and he could work it within a couple of Minutes, He even created an on-the-go playlist for me.

It's a big, clear system, basically. This is just personal experiance, but the buttons (once you know what there for) are easy to navigate and work well. All very logical.

But I didn't know how to turn off my iPod at first So READ THE MANUAL is all I've got to say.

If you like a product enough to buy it, you can adapt.

[Matra et Alpine]

As I already said you tout the "wheel" -- sorry. Hewlett Packard patented the concept of doign that MAY years ago I TOLD you that and THAT was the point I was making abotu the "debate" You didnt' read it.
So you will stick to the BELIEF as esposed by Apple that it's unique and different.
But it's NOT.
I've not bothered with the rest tonight as you fell at the first hurdle.
But I'll get round to it tomorrow

[IBrake4Rainbows]

As I already said you tout the "wheel" -- sorry. Hewlett Packard patented the concept of doign that MAY years ago I TOLD you that and THAT was the point I was making abotu the "debate" You didnt' read it.
So you will stick to the BELIEF as esposed by Apple that it's unique and different.
But it's NOT.
I've not bothered with the rest tonight as you fell at the first hurdle.
But I'll get round to it tomorrow

Is there another MP3 device that uses it?

Does it matter if it's old, It works! and because the Mouse is an old Design, we should all come up with ways to make a new one?