Shaking engine

[Lagonda]

Hello there,

My first technical question here: I have a 1.6 16V Renault Clio II. I think it's a K4M engine (not 100% sure, too lazy too look it up). This engine has a known problem: after a certain amount of time there is this part that fails, I have no idea what the real technical term is in English*, let's call it the "coil".

Now my shakes very badly from time to time, sometimes not at all, sometimes very hard. It doesn't shake like it'll stall but the car just vibrates really hard. It's highly annoying. You only notice it when you stand still and the engine is running idle. Now Renault in the South of France told me that one of these "coils" need replacement (or more). I didn't have them fixed over there (no time) but I sent my car in recently in Belgium (once for maintenance and once for new shock absorbers) and I asked twice to check the "coils", but they couldn't see which one to replace. Normally when the engine is running the pull them out one after the other and they can see which one "misfires". But they can't see it, and replacing them all 4 is quite expensive (around 300euros).

My question to you is: if they can't see which one is broken could it then be that it's something else ? If so, what ?

I hope someone has an idea, and I hope that some of you know what I'm actually talking about

thanks



*in dutch it is: potloodbobijn, and I freely translate that to pencil-coil (don't know the exact word for "bobijn" in english). It acts as powersupply to the spark plugs. On the bottom of these things you attach the spark plug. They are quite large.

[Matra et Alpine]

The CLIO is well known in the UK for failed coils.
Whatever thay're made from they dont' last.

With modern electrics the AA roadside service no longer carry electronic replacement parts for cars ...... except one -- yep the Clio because they fail so often !!

Who is "pulling" them to test ? Connecting to the engine diagnostic computer will spot the breakdown and pinpint the one right away Try to find a better garage with more tools and more experience !!!

[Lagonda]

The CLIO is well known in the UK for failed coils.
Whatever thay're made from they dont' last.

With modern electrics the AA roadside service no longer carry electronic replacement parts for cars ...... except one -- yep the Clio because they fail so often !!

Who is "pulling" them to test ? Connecting to the engine diagnostic computer will spot the breakdown and pinpint the one right away Try to find a better garage with more tools and more experience !!!

Yep, the Sagem coils are the problem makers, the Denso's are supposed to be better. The thing is that if they connect it to the computer, the computer can't tell them which one is failing. They really have to see it with their own eyes. I've been to 3 garages and they all say that. All the official Renault dealers have the same tools AFAIK. The only thing that the computer says is that there is a problem with the ignition when you pull one out, which is quite logical since you pull away the ignition. It doesn't say anything about the coil itself. I've always talked to the main technician (the older guy with experience )

And yes, it's especially the 1.6 16V engine that is problematic and they know it, the other ones don't have the problem.

[Matra et Alpine]

THey shoudl be able to put load on the coil and test it in situ with the engine running

[Lagonda]

In situ ?

They do test it with the engine runnig, but they can't see it. Soo that's why I'm afraid that it could be something else.

They suggested dirty injectors and added some injector cleaner but that didn't help much.

[Matra et Alpine]

ah, so they have done tests with a connection in series with the coil to test the discharge ? If not they should As a minimum they should swap one coil in and out along the bank !
It should be fairly easy to tell if it's ignition or injector. The problem is you need to find an "old school" mechanic who can actually diagnose using the exhaust, the cat temp and the figures from the diagnostics. The spark energy can easily be recorded I'm guessin ghtat as with many UK garages the mechanics are littlle more than spanner-monkeys who take bits off and refit new bits on the instruction of a book and diagnostic computer and so are now "stuck".

The "time" is the evidence that it's the coil or a lead breakign down with temparature. Injectors dont' go like that !!! Well other than the risk of the firing signal from the ECU having failed BUT if they have gone through proper fault finding they'll have confirmed the timing of those !

It sounds to me like they're after your money
You've two choices I think -- pay up but point out if it is NOT fixed you will expect a refund OR find a more experienced auto electrician to look at it.

[UCR]

Bolt it the fuk down then.