New VE Pictures. Is it a Commodore or a Falcon???

[Falcon500]

lol well you know, the quads would look good, the dualies so far dont, i feel they cuold have done a MUCH better job of housing the zorsts'.

The single on the garden varity would be bad i think i speak for us all when I say that.

And i dread to think what the base model looks like on this one and worse still think of it in black i want to buy a early f-100 so i can drive over the top of them and hear a satisfying "squealch" every time i run one over.

But one thing i did catch wind of was they have fianlly updated the now ancient semi trailing arms coupled with the improvments recently found in the engines and drivelines coupled with (hopefully) a greatly reduced kerb weight the holden dealers are actually feeling cocky right now.

[fpv_gtho]

Bee-sting ariels can sometimes be a bit of a pain, so I'm told

So theyre STILL behind the '02 BA as far as aerials are concerned, which has it integrated into the rear window

But one thing i did catch wind of was they have fianlly updated the now ancient semi trailing arms coupled with the improvments recently found in the engines and drivelines coupled with (hopefully) a greatly reduced kerb weight the holden dealers are actually feeling cocky right now.

The IRS bit seems to have been known for a while, most people think Holden are actually going to have 2 different setups, 1 for the taxi's and 1 for all the sports/upper class models. As for weight though, i think everyones expecting around 140kg more. Original reports had it at 230kg!

[Blitz_]

So theyre STILL behind the '02 BA as far as aerials are concerned, which has it integrated into the rear window



The IRS bit seems to have been known for a while, most people think Holden are actually going to have 2 different setups, 1 for the taxi's and 1 for all the sports/upper class models. As for weight though, i think everyones expecting around 140kg more. Original reports had it at 230kg!

True true, a while ago I heard about that, it didnt suprise me though because I generally think that most new cars released pack on a bit of weight here and there. Even with the increased weight, shouldn't the increased power in the engines across the range compensate for that?

[fpv_gtho]

Well 140kg more will need a noticeable change in power like the BA had over the AU. The weight gain's from the need for a much stiffer chassis though, again like the BA had over the AU, so the weight gain can be expected to be felt across all the models. Where it'll hurt them most is handling. Power can overcome weight in a straight line, although making the cars harder to launch, but it cant do anything for handling. Not only that, if Holden try and compensate with stiffer springs, the everyday driveability goes down the drain

[adrenaline]

Or could it be that, like Shower Power, these vents Actually Work?

On an earlier spy shot there was only an indent where the vents go, so assume that they are purely cosmetic.

[Falcon500]

Well 140kg more will need a noticeable change in power like the BA had over the AU. The weight gain's from the need for a much stiffer chassis though, again like the BA had over the AU, so the weight gain can be expected to be felt across all the models. Where it'll hurt them most is handling. Power can overcome weight in a straight line, although making the cars harder to launch, but it cant do anything for handling. Not only that, if Holden try and compensate with stiffer springs, the everyday driveability goes down the drain

The weight gain au-ba was alot more prounounced especially when you account for the au TE50 tipping the scales at 1580odd where the range topping GT tips the scales at 1820 of course the power compensated but in something everyone seems to be ignoring the fuel ecconmy went south as well as a brakeing (untill the mkII) and while with the bf upgrade they improved feul ecconmy slightly it still is where the car suffers the most. And people winge about that woeful change when the commadores are still rated worse

A genuine sports packe for the suspension would do wonders of course ive been saying that about softly sprung new cars with their "apprent" sport suspension since i came on here (nuff said i like how STi's bounce over obsticles rather the comply )

And the vents where purely cosmetic on the VY-VZ cant see why that would change.

[fpv_gtho]

The final T3's were actually around the 1700kg mark, but had the 5.6L motor and are better track weapons than a BA GT. Pretty sure it was only the series one AU's that kept around 1500kg's. Since Series 2 even the XR8's were around 1600-1700kg

[Falcon500]

I got a test of a series II thats where im getting my weight quote from. so the SIII more then likly is the on the proky side.

But no AU was over the 1700 mark (ltd,fairlane might be an exclusion but where talking perfomance not luxo barges here) some got damned near but never over....from the factory the ba isnt never very far from 1700 thats all i was aiming at

Funny thing is the xr8 AU was only 15kgs heavier then the EL XR8 and its 32% stiffer then the EL and the bit that blows my mind is the AU xr8 has an indepndant rear end and it only 15 kilos lighter(i bought a box of old wheels/motor mags for $2 can you tell :P) I have really read up on the AU and with the ammount of work that went into makeing it a good car its even more of a shame it ended off getting the rough end of the sitck

And your right Trevor haines and that John falk done alot better in the Te50s then they did in the GTs in GT-p (what ever they want to call it now) in 03 john falk came 3rd in the series no ba showroom based gt has done that sadly

[fpv_gtho]

Was it the T3 or T2 the TE went from Fairmont spec to Futura spec?

That IRS bit is interesting as the extra weight killed the engine gain the XR6 VCT had over the normal model. The BA's though are supposed to be 88% stiffer and there was no hiding that weight increase. Its funny though now but the BA wagons are about 10kg lighter than the equivalent sedans...

The BA's are probably almost at as much of a disadvantage with the weight as they are with the imbalance from the engine. The BA V8's are noticeably more nose heavy compared to the T6's, something that never had as many complaints with the AU's

[Falcon500]

It was t3 they went futura.

Well the AU was also a benifactor of ford aus scoreing a contract with a major metal company which helped them stiffen and lighten the car that how it had the advantage over the EL. And wheels made mention of the with the xr6 hp vs the xr6 vct it handeld good but the extra weight just didnt do it any justice....that said the vct was the best of the sohc 6s and is a sharp car to modify B-).
I didnt know that about the wagons.....methinks little changed on the wagons and the utes.

Yeah but they arnt complaining about it not haveing enough grunt either

[fpv_gtho]

Ive heard from places like Jim Mock Motorsport the VCT engines are harder to do camshafts etc for than the normal motors, although i suppose theyre learning alot more now that the BA's are VCT across the board, except for the XR8 and GT.

Sheetmetal wise, the utes and wagons only changed forward of the A pillar, and kept the same front windscreen.

[Falcon500]

Ive heard from places like Jim Mock Motorsport the VCT engines are harder to do camshafts etc for than the normal motors, although i suppose theyre learning alot more now that the BA's are VCT across the board, except for the XR8 and GT.

Sheetmetal wise, the utes and wagons only changed forward of the A pillar, and kept the same front windscreen.

There was a place in performance ford that said what i quoted they also said they where the smoothest of the lost and had the least harmonics etc and wheels was right to an extent that the vct was wasted on just one can but it did help but i never heard they where harder (though i wouldent doubt it)

And im hanging to see the new v8 but after intial talks of the 5l i havent heard nothing

And its proably a good thing they didnt change much ford got the utes and wagons pretty spot on and they have hardly changed in the last decade and theier still selling well.

[2ndclasscitizen]

The live rear axle formula works well for them, so why change it?

[SlickHolden]

Funny thing on vents, the Monaros were fake looking but went into the bonnet, And it was a funny site if someone seen me but i blew into the bonnet on top hand under it and felt the wind, I thought they were fake air does get in there, But i seen the VZ's side vents up close and thought i might be able to grab them and pull them off.

[jch75]

I think from a Holden perspective this car is relatively original. Keeping within the realm of a 'Commodore', this car appears very different to what we see in the VZ. Now there are claims that the VE looks much like the Torana concept, sure there are clues of other car manufactures - in many pics I have seen, there is plenty of resemblance of the Opel Vectra and Astra. Which of course are global GM products.

I am curious to see what people were expecting from the new car? After all, I find it extremely interesting that people with Ford interests think the VE is a rip off, when the BA is quite clearly a Commodore rip off when you compare to the Falcon AU. Gee......that ugly AU, transformed into something 'very similar' to a commodore. Probably because Commodores blitz'd Falcons for about 4 consecutive years prior to the BA. So they did a fair bit of ripping off as well as adding a turbo to their range.

Anyway, on the other side of the coin we know a new Toyota Aurion is coming. Now the styling of that is very comparable to existing Falcons, Commodores and even the 380. I think the common thing here, is Australians have a very specific taste - hence the cars all have a similar feel. In the case of the VE, yes they have gone for a more European look but you can't tell me that Opels, VW, Audi, Saab [two of which are GM] don't share common appeal. And it is an interesting move by Holden, a risk to be different to other Australian cars. Whether it works is unknown, but I am sure we will see plenty on our roads anyway as taxi's and government cars.

And whilst I do tend to agree with some of the boring comments about the VE based on the pics provided, I am sure the real car will look more impressive. There are varying pics all over the net, different colours and minor body or headlight differences and it appears to make all the difference. I am aware that Holden has significant plans under the bonnet though 1] to counter Fords turbo push 2] to leverage off GMs global capability. Green cars, alternative fuels, impressive performance gains using unspecified technologies, u name it, don't be surprised. Of course, we'll know more when the car hits the yards.