New Layout

[NoOne]

Very nicely put on all points McReis.

BTW. The blue text works really well.

[Vaigra]

Best post of the thread right there by McReis. Perfect explanation, IMO.
I agree with pretty much everything there. I preferred the old forum layout but the new layout hasn't changed the forum itself. We still have the same atmosphere, the same posters, some new members, the same great car discussions. I'm here for the cars and now I've got to know a few of them, the people. The layout doesn't change that.

[McReis]

BTW. The blue text works really well.

I'm tired of telling that to the stubborn WM, but he doesn't listen to the people.

[Pando]

But again if we're all that worried about what it looks like instead of post quality we'll be turning oursleves into my school - a Bunch of shallow idiots.

You're right. But isn't sacrificing functionality for looks a bit shallow aswell? I'm just one of those persons who likes it simple when it comes to computers, software and the internet. For instance I recently swiched back to winamp 2.0 (yes, it's from 1997) just because I don't NEED my mp3 player to rip cd's, send emails, make me coffee and fetch me the newspaper while I listen to music. (man, am I getting off topic) My point is, that for me it's members, functionality and looks, in that order.

Then again I accept that I seem to belong to the minority on this one. Personally I prefered the old forum layout and if there would in the future be an option to change the display mode back to that one I wouldn't mind it at all.

I had to take a few days timeout from the site partly because of the change, I know other members did aswell and I sincerely hope noone left because of the change. (No, I don't want NoOne to leave )

Yeah I don't like vertical trees. That is so 2001.

Hehe, that's pure gold!

But you guys should know that insisting on something for too long, may become a bit unpleasant. What I mean is that this is a public forum ruled by people who put much effort and passion into their work. If they, after thinking long about the best solutions to use, decide to know our opinion, that's a bonus. A sympathy we should be thankful of.
Wouter could always decide something without consulting us. He would keep his work going, and we could bark together for 2 or 3 days but then the discussion would simply die.
What happens here is that Wouter has the annoying habit of being a nice guy. He wants to know if you guys are happy, he wants to have your feedback and he wants you guys to have his explanation. We already got through that part.
What he never said, and you guys just can't demand, is that he would always try to please every single member and that every move of the forums would please each one of us. Sometimes that doesn't happen. And even if it didn't please a single member, it's always him who should have the power to decide. Although Wouter runs it like if it was, UCP is not necessarily a democracy,since I can't see a constitution. Our opinion is a bonus

Ok, I understand what you're getting at and I'm not trying to argue that Wouter wouldn't be a nice guy
BUT
any business that don't listen to their customers is bound to fail. It's not the kidness in him that makes him listen and care, it's his smarts. As a good majority seems to be pleased with the change no action is needed. Of course it sucks to be on the "other" side, but hey, it's not the end of the world. I'm still addicted to the site and will keep on visiting. As previously said the quality of the forums is what's most important, and that's something everyone of us contribute to in one way or another. Unless the quality of takes a huge change for the worse(which I very much doubt it will) I will probably sign up for the premium membership once I start working for the summer.


PS: I don't know if anyone knows what I'm on about but, I also noticed that the forum attachments are no longer the "original images" but ".php files" which probably don't affect anyone else in a negative way but probably helps out instead. I'm using an extention for easier downloading(DownThemAll) which after the technical update now save the images as attachment_001.php etc instead of their original name...

[McReis]

any business that don't listen to their customers is bound to fail.

Sure, but W is aiming to the biggest share of the market. Not only a niche.

This forum has hundreds of active posters, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'cant see more than 8 persons saying this layout will never serve as well as the other.

[Egg Nog]

I've got a little more time now, let me try to clear this up.

There are no grudges here between myself and Wouter, Pieter, or anybody. I'm not angry that my last thread go deleted. It's pretty hard to find internet time here to read through everything, so I'm seeing this thread for the first time right now.

Regarding the layout, my opinion is (as usual, it seems) pretty similar to Matra's. It is basically this:

• Horizontal clutter takes away from how easily I can scan through the posts
• I don't need to see user information like join date, number of posts, username, avatar, etc everytime I read a post.
• Individual post blocks take away from how smoothly a user can scroll through

I know that Wouter as the site's boss will of course listen to any notions of dissent, but naturally he'll only act on them when they make up a majority, and even then, he can veto whatever he wants. It's his site. I just want to make sure that everyone is honest with how they feel about the page layout, rather than just accepting everything. I'll be as honest as I can rather than just being confrontational - that's why I said that the main page looks amazing (as it does) but the forum layout doesn't agree with me.

Wouter is the boss, etc, etc. He knows my opinion and he knows all of yours. I don't think he can be expected to do anything but whatever he decides will make the site more popular, and thus more financially successful. As long as he knows everyone's opinion and we're all being totally honest, we'll probably end up with a better site overall.

Besides, Pieter just explained to me that I can turn off avatars as well as signatures now. All for the better.

-Shawn

[IBrake4Rainbows]

^ everything there sounds perfectly reasonable and logical.

the Horozontal Member Information bar does detract from easy scanning of the threads IMHO.

I still like the new format but with every change problems will inevitably arise and the bugs will need to be ironed out.

a lesser format does not detract from the notion that a good forum is one with post quality, however.

[Wouter Melissen]

What might help is limit the avatar height to 75 pixels to make the box smaller, but that might not be well received by you guys.

[clutch-monkey]

i don't see the issue really. i read the writing in the posts, not the stuff between them
horizontal, vertical, spherical....its still the same words

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Even by shrinking the avatars height you'll still be left with posts which lead into other posts cut in two by user information.

I guess it's going to be more of a change to the style in which we respond to posts....

[Coventrysucks]

My only criticism would be that the sigs are part of the posts, which is somewhat distracting.

My suggestion would be that the sigs could have a different background or text colour to de-emphasise them.

Or I could just turn them off and stop complaining...

As for censorship;
If that was part of the regime, surely all dissent would be deleted, rather than 1 thread?

[henk4]

As for censorship;
If that was part of the regime, surely all dissent would be deleted, rather than 1 thread?

this is a place of shrewdly applied censorship

[derekthetree]

this is a place of shrewdly applied censorship

more like slackdash censorship

i demand more censorship and hyprocrisy (especially from leading members of the community)

[Coventrysucks]

I demand more chips and hippos (especially to our glorious leaders)

Oh, alright then...

[derekthetree]

Oh, alright then...

I didn't ask for grammar lessons though.