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Thread: Balance change key to `illegal` Ferrari wings.

  1. #1
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    Balance change key to `illegal` Ferrari wings.

    Ferrari's front wing is under investigation by the FIA, after TV pictures suggested that it contravenes the rules outlawing movable aerodynamic devices.

    On-board pictures seen on the German Premiere satellite channel, but not the worldwide feed, apparently showed the upper elements moving sideways after retaining pins came out of their holes under load. Several teams were alerted to the story by people watching in Europe, and have made their feelings known to the FIA.

    Rivals says that the role of Ferrari's suspect front wings is to balance the car between high and low speed corners, and not apparently to do with reducing drag and improving straightline efficiency.

    In fact, what happens is that as the main front wing flexes downwards - as all wings do under load - a pin attaching the upper elements to the nose slides out of position. This creates a gap between the elements and the nose which allows a flow-through of air that would not otherwise occur.

    It is believed that the point is to adjust the balance of the car. In other words, when the already much-criticised flexing rear wing remains in its 'down' position through high speed corners, this gap at the front helps to stabilise the car.

    Through the slower corners, the rear wing returns to its 'up' position to create downforce. Meanwhile, the gap created within the upper elements of the front wing closes, and the car is balanced once more. Rivals admit that it is a clever arrangement, but insist that this is a movable aerodynamic device that is completely against the rules.

    We understand that the FIA's Charlie Whiting agrees, and that he is well aware of the teams' concerns.

    Meanwhile, in an unprecedented move, Martin Whitmarsh, Geoff Willis and Pat Symonds met with Ross Brawn this morning to discuss the situation. One well-informed source described Brawn as a 'very good poker player'.

    There has been no action from the FIA today, so everything could kick off after the race. If either of the Ferraris finishes, then the FIA has the opportunity to pursue the matter in scrutineering. If they don't finish, then the story may move on to Australia, in which case the onus is on Ferrari to turn up with something different.

    In any case, we understand that the team may already have been told that the flexing rear wing issue will be addressed before Australia.

    Ferrari has already had a bad day after the FIA confirmed that Michael Schumacher will start 14th and not eleventh, where the team had expected him to be. If a Ferrari finishes, this could be a long day...

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    Are there any drawings or pictures available? Im going to DL the race tommorrow so i dont want to check any sites right now...

    I can't tell what they mean by the top element moving "sideways". What i get from the description is that a gap forms between elements in the wing. But this will only happen if the wing is recieving a high load. How does this effect ballance then, and not just (or primarily) the Cd?
    It is believed that the point is to adjust the balance of the car. In other words, when the already much-criticised flexing rear wing remains in its 'down' position through high speed corners, this gap at the front helps to stabilise the car.
    How? It seems like too little is known (at least by this author) to make any conclusions.

    Also, the rear wing is reinforced with vertical supports (second attachment). How much can it still flex?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by johnnyperl; 03-19-2006 at 01:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyperl
    Also, the rear wing is reinforced with vertical supports (second attachment). How much can it still flex?
    at higher speeds the wing receives an enormous load. Now under this it will simply bend. Try bending a piece of steel,after a certain high load it will bend and under even higher loads break.

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    The 'flexing' seen on the TV pictures refers to the upper two elements of the front wing. It seems that as the speed builds up it pushes the wing down at either side, and the flex is evident because the upper elements don't seem to be solidly attached to the nose cone. As they reach top speed down the straight the upper wing elements seperate from the nose as the whole wing flexes downwards.

    Not sure how that would effect the balance or stability of the car but it seems that the Ferraris are pretty devestating in a straight line, perhaps indicating a reduction in drag.

    The TV pictures also seem to show the rear wing being rather, erm, malleable shall we say, something Renault were complaining about last week.
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    TEAMS ASK FOR CLEARER WING REGS
    Last Updated: Sunday, 19, March, 2006, 13:48


    Three leading Formula 1 teams could be forced to revise their rear-wings if the FIA decides to tighten regulations regarding the flexibility of aerodynamic structures on cars.

    Eight of the 11 teams have signed a letter to the FIA asking for clarification over the regulations regarding the alleged use of flexi-wings in Formula 1.

    ITV Sport believes that Ferrari and Red Bull's team bosses are missing from the document, which asks the governing body to clear up what is perceived to be a grey area in the regulations.

    "The FIA will clarify the situation before we get to Melbourne," said Honda's team principal Nick Fry.

    "That's what we need. All we asked (FIA technical delegate) Charlie Whiting is which interpretation is correct.

    The teams indicated in the letter that if the FIA doesn't clarify the situation, they could lodge an official protest at the Australian Grand Prix in Melbourne.

    Ferrari's front wing came under scrutiny during the Malaysian Grand Prix weekend after the element appeared to be moving on in-car footage.

    This comes after the team's rear-wing was cleared in Bahrain when it was subjected to stringent rigidity tests by the FIA.

    But while the Italian team's wings have been the subject of much speculation over the weekend, Ferrari is not the only one thought to be using a rear-wing that falls into the teams' "grey area".

    "Anyone who is not an engineer can see from the TV pictures and make their own conclusions," said Fry.

    "Two other teams are in the same situation, and ironically they are part of the eight.

    "We had a nice conversation with Charlie Whiting this morning today and took his word that it will be fixed for Melbourne."


    from itv-f1.com ... interesting that Ferrari weren't a signatory on the letter .... hmmmmm
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    Here what I saw:

    On the front wing, when the car would corner to the right(lets say) the left upper element of the front wing would slide out by about half and inch or so. That would mean that right upper element would slide in and contact the nose cone. Did this provide better downforce, and airflow for the right turn, and right front of the car? Who knows, I am not a scientist.
    For the rear wing, we are talking about the sections that says "Marlboro" on it, I could clearly see the upper element flexing downward to meet the lower element in high speed sections, this creates less drag, but in the corners the sections would return to normal, thus giving downforce for the corners.

    Am I right? If not please correct me, or fill in anything that I am missing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KonaGreen
    Here what I saw:

    On the front wing, when the car would corner to the right(lets say) the left upper element of the front wing would slide out by about half and inch or so. That would mean that right upper element would slide in and contact the nose cone. Did this provide better downforce, and airflow for the right turn, and right front of the car? Who knows, I am not a scientist.
    For the rear wing, we are talking about the sections that says "Marlboro" on it, I could clearly see the upper element flexing downward to meet the lower element in high speed sections, this creates less drag, but in the corners the sections would return to normal, thus giving downforce for the corners.

    Am I right? If not please correct me, or fill in anything that I am missing.
    That's spot on with what I was thinking while watching footage of the Malaysian Grand Prix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    TEAMS ASK FOR CLEARER WING REGS
    from itv-f1.com ... interesting that Ferrari weren't a signatory on the letter .... hmmmmm
    i doubt STR or RedBull are the other two .. so from the 8 teams ... 2 should should change their wings too.. how stupid
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    The question will always come down to how do you test such a thing. If you were to do test on actual car in Parc Ferme then you are risking damaging the parts on the race car(we are talking about something probably in the region of 800lb or more in terms of load to put on the wing....). If you do testing beforehand on a test part then you cannot guarantee the test part is exactly the same as the regular part on the car....
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac
    The question will always come down to how do you test such a thing. If you were to do test on actual car in Parc Ferme then you are risking damaging the parts on the race car(we are talking about something probably in the region of 800lb or more in terms of load to put on the wing....). If you do testing beforehand on a test part then you cannot guarantee the test part is exactly the same as the regular part on the car....
    They already test for deflection by applying force on the wing.
    i'm betting it meets the deflection limits. BUT this interesting gap that formed at the top winglet to body is allowing air to spill off the wing reducing downforce and reducing drag.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

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    Jean Todt himself said that when you design a car you read the rules and then you design the car within a millimeter of the rules.
    ie It's legal but only just.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    They already test for deflection by applying force on the wing.
    i'm betting it meets the deflection limits. BUT this interesting gap that formed at the top winglet to body is allowing air to spill off the wing reducing downforce and reducing drag.
    They are doing the same thing as on an LMP with endplates....A copy of the 2006 F1 aero rulebook would be useful right now...

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    Formula 1 Technical Regs 2006 (PDF file) right click, save as

    http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...EGULATIONS.pdf

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    3.17 Bodywork flexibility :
    3.17.1
    Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 700mm
    forward of the front wheel centre line and 625mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a
    downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter 300mm long and 150mm wide. Teams
    must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.
    3.17.2
    Bodywork may deflect no more than 10mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 450mm
    forward of the rear wheel centre line and 650mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a
    downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter of the same size, Teams must supply the
    latter when such a test is deemed necessary.
    3.17.3
    Bodywork may deflect by no more than one degree horizontally when a load of 1000N is applied
    simultaneously to its extremities in a rearward direction 780mm above the reference plane and 20mm
    forward of the rear wheel centre line.
    3.17.4
    Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it at a point
    which lies on the car centre line and 380mm rearward of the front wheel centre line. The load will be
    applied in an upward direction using a 50mm diameter ram, teams will be required to supply a suitable
    adapter when such a test is deemed necessary.
    3.17.5
    The uppermost aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line may deflect no more than 5mm
    horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally. The load will be applied 800mm above the reference
    plane at three separate points which lie on the car centre line and 250mm either side of it. The loads will be
    applied in an rearward direction using a suitable 25mm wide adapter which must be supplied by the
    relevant team.
    3.17.6
    The forward-most aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line and which lies more than 600mm
    above the reference plane may deflect no more than 2mm vertically when a 200N load is applied vertically.
    The load will be applied in line with the trailing edge of the element at any point across its width. The loads
    will be applied using a suitable adapter, supplied by the relevant team, which :
    -
    may be no more than 50mm wide ;
    -
    which extends no more than 10mm forward of the trailing edge ;
    -
    incorporates an 8mm female thread in the underside.
    Last edited by Zytek_Fan; 03-20-2006 at 05:18 PM.

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    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Zytek... I can read it, but I don't quite know if I understand it. Makes my head hurt

    But anyway, so the scrutineers can test deflection. To a degree. It would seem that some teams (Ferrari at least), have figured something out, in such that it meets the test in a static environment, but on the track it all behaves differently.

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