International Engine of the Year Awards.

[charged]

most folks forget that the "success" Ducati has with the desmo engien in wordl superbieks was because they were allowed to run a 1000cc engien whilst everyeon else had to run 750cc. Even now that everyeon is on 1000cc Ducati are allowed to run freee, EVERYOEN else has s RESTRICTED INLET to limit the power. Ducati "win" because they are politically strong, not from the engineering !!!

I love stirring up my mate who has a duke about them running 1000cc in the world superbikes LOL

[Matra et Alpine]

Yep AND it looks like SuperBieks are goign to let them have bigger engines under the new formula.

GET REAL. Either the bieks are good adn competitive or their'; crap and can only win by cheating ( I vote the latter )

Mate had a 750SS for 14 months until it came time for the valves to be "adjusted". ( ie replace most of it ) He sold the bike back to them rather than swallow the huge bill they proposed for it's "service" !!

[Jack_Bauer]

Wow, the BMW M 3.2 litre straight six has won the 3-4 litre award for the sixth time in a row!

I know it's a very good engine, but I would've thought something from the Porsche 911 range would've won that award at least once in that time. In fact, BMW seem to clean up pretty much every year. Anyone reckon they're slipping the judges some cheeky backhanders?

[PerfAdv]

Wow, the BMW M 3.2 litre straight six has won the 3-4 litre award for the sixth time in a row!

I know it's a very good engine, but I would've thought something from the Porsche 911 range would've won that award at least once in that time. In fact, BMW seem to clean up pretty much every year. Anyone reckon they're slipping the judges some cheeky backhanders?

And the M 3.2 has a cast iron block to top it off!!

My theory is that if you make an engine long enough you'll eventually perfect it (almost). Their inline six has been in development for decades. Mercedes and even Toyota gave in to the V6's better packaging and discontinued their sixes. Sad, because the straight six is better in so many ways; vibration, heat dissapation...

Also, it looks like manufacturers who also make motorcycle engines seem to excel at car engines. Once you've made very high specific output, hot running, capacity-challenged engines it's a lot easier to make an bigger, slower revving car engines. Both BMW and Honda make possibly the best car engine...

[LotusLocost]

The new VW 1.4 TSI got two awards

My brother have ordered the new Golf GT, and I'm looking forward to try it

[Cyco]

a magnesium block, wow i've never heard of this but it sounds interesting, magnesium is really light but it isnt the strongest of metals out there, and small micrscopic fissures in a block could lead to dissasterous results ... wonder how they managed to do this ..

Bentley built a Mg block for the speed 8 in 1931, just before it was bought by RR.

[2ndclasscitizen]

The quote re the 6000 was DIRECT from BMW
It's maybe been updated .

Ducati desmo is a nightmare.
VERY expensive for even the daily use bikes.
The race bikes last ONE RACE.
Yeap, the whole thing is NEW every race !!!!
AND most folks forget that the "success" Ducati has with the desmo engien in wordl superbieks was because they were allowed to run a 1000cc engien whilst everyeon else had to run 750cc. Even now that everyeon is on 1000cc Ducati are allowed to run freee, EVERYOEN else has s RESTRICTED INLET to limit the power. Ducati "win" because they are politically strong, not from the engineering !!!

Desmo doesnt' have variable valve timing and has NO springs so the valvetronic problems isnt' repeateable.

Is Desmo that electronic valve actuation system? I was looking up the specs on the Monster 620 when I was looking up L-legal bikes and it mentioned that

[hightower99]

Valvetronic does indeed rev to 7000rpm now just look here :http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish...nter_960.shtml

at the N52 engine it has valvetronic and revs to 7000rpm.

Also when I said that interesting solutions would be needed to raise the bar higher and mentioned the Desmo system I meant the underlying technique that could be the cure. Mainly that instead of heavy springs you have a second leaver set and an extra cam on the camshaft that actually actively closes the valves. This system has been used in ducati's inengines revving over 11000rpm. I am sure that BMW could find a similar system of their own design that could last in a car.

Although I would rather have them throw away stupid poppet valves!

[Matra et Alpine]

Is Desmo that electronic valve actuation system? I was looking up the specs on the Monster 620 when I was looking up L-legal bikes and it mentioned that

As ht, said, Desmodronic is a system of levers to OPEN the valves and corresponding levers to CLOSE them too.
No springs is the advantage.
So no spring bounce and theoretically no limit to valve open/close speed !!

But, to work effectively the levers both have to be in contact with the cam profiles and the valve. So there is no "gap" as such ( because it would introduce vibration and problem throughout all of the valve cycle.
So Desmo has more contact surfaces operating at high revs and high speeds AND at high frictions.
THAT is where it's achilles heel is and why Ducati cant' re-use Desmo race engines
Also why when it comes service time it can be VERY VERY expensive if any of that is worn ( and it always is )

Nobody else uses Desmo anymore for those reasons but Ducati hang on to it as their "showcase" -- a bit like Mazda and the rotary. It's not "better" just "different" and by cheating they have convinced a whole generation of bike buyers that DUcati are "high performance" bikes by seeing them win against all the competition in years past ( as stated already it's easy to win with an extra 250cc of engine capacity -- but few even KNEW that !!! ) (NB. THey are still fast bikes and lots of fun tho' )

[2ndclasscitizen]

Make a great noise too. Slight off-topic, saw a 1000 Ninja racing a Harley, my god, the noise, nearly had to change my pants

[PerfAdv]

Electric solenoid actuated valves should solve all of the above, almost. I don't know how close these are to being production ready. With a valvetrain that'll be able to run/timed independantly of the piston strokes the benefits that are being seen with variable timing and lift systems could be maximized. Also, no spring bounce, wear, friction issues in the top-end with solenoid valves. This is the next big thing for IC engines...

[nota]

Dunno much about newer Ducatis but I'm familiar with the old bevel-drive V-twins ..

As Matra explained, desmos run an 'interference gap' on the exhaust cams, that meaning a zero clearance, or close to. The problem is that nobody has yet invented a .00 feeler gauge, to set this required .00 gap. With desmo bevels the best method is head remove/replace. Keep in mind that this valve service should be done every 1500 miles, and you can see why few owners bothered to do it - which is why desmo Dukes gained a reputation for valve buring and other dramas .. and why Ducati Darmahs were called Ducati Dramas

Btw my first bike was a 900 GTS bevel drive. Being a non-desmo the valve adjustment on that (20 & 30 thou IIRC) was simple, it took me less than 20 minutes every 2000 miles. It was a great bike. Later my brother bought one of the final bevels, a near-new and beautiful black/gold 900 SS desmo which did over 140mph. He sold it less than a year afterwards, citing the desmo-adjustment hassle factor, but the fool replaced it with a Suzuki Katana - 16 valve shim-adjust haha

nb: Ducati desmos do/did have valve springs, not to close the valve but to seat it

[derekthetree]

Wow, the BMW M 3.2 litre straight six has won the 3-4 litre award for the sixth time in a row!

I know it's a very good engine, but I would've thought something from the Porsche 911 range would've won that award at least once in that time. In fact, BMW seem to clean up pretty much every year. Anyone reckon they're slipping the judges some cheeky backhanders?

maybe the new gt3's 3.6 will win it next year. that is unless the new m3's 4litre(?) v8 pips it

[hightower99]

Electric solenoid actuated valves should solve all of the above, almost. I don't know how close these are to being production ready. With a valvetrain that'll be able to run/timed independantly of the piston strokes the benefits that are being seen with variable timing and lift systems could be maximized. Also, no spring bounce, wear, friction issues in the top-end with solenoid valves. This is the next big thing for IC engines...

Yes solenoids are going to be amazing but they are still quite a while off from production cars (waiting for 48 volt systems) However I still think it is a shame that nobody is really embracing other types of valves. Poppet valves just are not that great for ICEs no matter how well they are opened or closed they are still highly shrouded openings and they are very ineffecient packaging wise. I think that the Coates spherical rotary valves are the future (or at least a glipse of it)

[Matra et Alpine]

The problem with rotary valves ( and the Coates ) is that so far nobody has identified a way to get variable valve timing and opening.

So it can't match the wide performance and fuel efficiency of modern ICEs.