Israel vs. Lebanon THE POLL Edition

[Dino Scuderia]

As I said...Hezbollah don't need a reason.

[Dino Scuderia]

Coventrysucks said:

There is a forum rule about personal attacks...

You think you got insulted...I got compared to Fleet 500...at least I didn't do that to you.

[Clique]

Hezbollah shouldn't have captured the soldiers, you reep what you sew.

Israel shouldnt have killed all those innocent civilians...

Dino:Kidnapping is common so everyone should just accept it and not show that there will be concequences then?

well negotiation seems to work mate.also hundreds of people have been kidnapped all around the world i dont see wars being starting over them. these kidnappings seems to me as if they are just an excuse to attack Lebanon..

Dino: You can't negotiate with Hezbollah, they are where they are for one reason, to kill jews.

hmm....therefore you can say that Israel or Ehumd(Israeli secret service) have one reason, to kill muslims...

[Piacki_117]

I hate religion.

I do too.

[Dino Scuderia]

Israel shouldnt have killed all those innocent civilians...

Dino:Kidnapping is common so everyone should just accept it and not show that there will be concequences then?

well negotiation seems to work mate.also hundreds of people have been kidnapped all around the world i dont see wars being starting over them. these kidnappings seems to me as if they are just an excuse to attack Lebanon..

Dino: You can't negotiate with Hezbollah, they are where they are for one reason, to kill jews.

hmm....therefore you can say that Israel or Ehumd(Israeli secret service) have one reason, to kill muslims...

So you're still in denial about why civilians got killed when I have expalined why it happens in a previous post, fine, there are none so blind than those who refuse to see.

Israel has been patient knowing all along that Hezbollah have been amassing missiles, no attacks on Hezbollah at all for years, Hezbollah kidnaps soldiers on Israeli soil...what did you think they'd do? Talk about it? Get real.

[Clique]

So you're still in denial about why civilians got killed when I have expalined why it happens in a previous post, fine, there are none so blind than those who refuse to see.

Israel has been patient knowing all along that Hezbollah have been amassing missiles, no attacks on Hezbollah at all for years, Hezbollah kidnaps soldiers on Israeli soil...what did you think they'd do? Talk about it? Get real.

what about the missiles and army Israel has been amassing..dude just b'coz they are a country doesnt mean that they can do whatever they want...
the only reason there is mass hatred for Israel is because of there continous oppression of the Palestinian people...i am sure you are blind to know what has been happening therefore i will use an analogy which might help you understand the current situation in the mid-east.

think of the mid-east as your home(Palestine pre-1948). imagine if some person(i.e Israel) entered your home and through time decided he wanted your toilet, kitchen and all the bedrooms(israel wanting more Palestinian land). What would you do?. get help from the police?(UN, West, ETC) but if they dont respond you take matters into your own hand. your friends might denouce that person that takes over your house(Iran, Syria) but the person that takes over your house his mates (USA, West) threaten the houseowner with war and what not...
so you take matters into your own hands....
Thats what these 'extremists' are doing. they are defending their country as you would defend your house...
as for Hezbollah each time another innocent victim dies they get another young supporter..

its a vicious cycle..each time an Israeli solidier kills an innocent person, that persons family seeks revenge. they kill, kidnap an Israeli soldier or an innocent Israeli..then the Israelis seek revenge and kill an innocent palestininan and so on....

[Dino Scuderia]

what about the missiles and army Israel has been amassing..dude just b'coz they are a country doesnt mean that they can do whatever they want...
the only reason there is mass hatred for Israel is because of there continous oppression of the Palestinian people...i am sure you are blind to know what has been happening therefore i will use an analogy which might help you understand the current situation in the mid-east.

think of the mid-east as your home(Palestine pre-1948). imagine if some person(i.e Israel) entered your home and through time decided he wanted your toilet, kitchen and all the bedrooms(israel wanting more Palestinian land). What would you do?. get help from the police?(UN, West, ETC) but if they dont respond you take matters into your own hand. your friends might denouce that person that takes over your house(Iran, Syria) but the person that takes over your house his mates (USA, West) threaten the houseowner with war and what not..
so you take matters into your own hands....
Thats what these 'extremists' are doing. they are defending their country as you would defend your house...
as for Hezbollah each time another innocent victim dies they get another young supporter..

its a vicious cycle..each time an Israeli solidier kills an innocent person, that persons family seeks revenge. they kill, kidnap an Israeli soldier or an innocent Israeli..then the Israelis seek revenge and kill an innocent palestininan and so on....

First of all Hezbollah nor Hamas are countries and they are not protecting any countries, they are militant arms of Syria and Iran. It's convenient for them to have these tentacles which are not sovereign nations so they don't have to adhere to any real rules etc. The only way to deal with them is defeat.

We can go over the long sorted history if you like and I agree besides stupid religious beliefs both sides have done plenty to each other.

Today, what is Israel to do, for example; Recently when Israel removed it's own citizens... by force mind you...from the Gaza strip to appease the Palestinians, the minute the job was done Hamas began sending rockets into Israel. Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran are never going to be happy until Israel is pushed into the see in a bloody way.

So what is left to do? It's to keep weapons for defense when you have sworn enemies constantly scheming to take you out. So don't be so naive about it eh. All the G8 members agreed that Hezbollah are at fault here, agreeing on the wording of a cease-fire is another matter...alas those are just words anyway.

People complain about the US backing Israel saying it allows Israel to do whatever it pleases. The larger picture is the US also keeps Israel from doing whatever it wants....if not Palestine, Iran and Syria would probably be history.

Isreal pretty much stays in it's corner and responds to attacks only. Usually as concise as possible with guided rockets directly at the enemy not the country at large.

Let me reiterate that there is a UN resolution for Hezbollah to disarm, not for Israel to.

[Coventrysucks]

The only way to deal with them is defeat.

Again, no, "defeat" is not the solution, because "defeat" can never be achieved against an enemy which has such a vast population of angry Arabs across the Mid-East to recruit from.

Similarly - the world will never "defeat" Terror with a military campaign - 4.5 years in Afghanistan, 3 years in Iraq, still no sign that either Al Qaida or the Taliban are "defeated".

You cannot stop those organisations by a war of attrition - it simply won't work.

Peace won't be achieved in the current "eye-for-an-eye" situation (or more accurately "eye, head, arm and a foot-for-an-eye").

You need to create the situation whereby the vast majority of a population of these countries finds terrorism as abhorent an idea as we do, so that there is no support for them, and no one to recruit.


During the last 40 odd years, there have been many brutal and violent terrorist attacks in Northern Ireland and mainland Britain.

At no point did the British government throw up its hands, claim that it had to "protect" itself and start bombing everyone, and when there was any significant military backlash, it only aggrevated the terrorists further.

Now that there is a political dialogue between the two sides, the violence is much reduced.

A lesson to be learned perhaps?

long sorted history

"Sordid", sorry

Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran are never going to be happy until Israel is pushed into the see in a bloody way.

That is simply untrue. You cannot slander the entire Arab population of the planet based on the actions of a small, but "vocal" minority.

The only reason why so many people dislike Israel is because it does what it is doing now.

If Hezbollah had attacked Israel, and Israel had not responded militarily I'm sure many people would feel more sympathy for Israel, rather than the Lebanese people being killed, and their "defenders" - the terrorists.

Why did the people of Palestine democratically elect an alleged terrorist organisation? Because they are all blood-thirsty terrorists themselves, or because they feel that the only people on the planet who are on "their" side, and have any ability to stand up to Israel are Hamas?

Isreal pretty much stays in it's corner and responds to attacks only. Usually as concise as possible with guided rockets directly at the enemy not the country at large.

Hmm... Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinian ambulances trying to aid people that have been hit by Israeli shells, Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinian children for throwing stones at them, Israeli soldiers shooting foreign aid workers trying to help Palestinian civilains...

Both sides have stooped to some pretty pathetic levels, and neither the terrorist organisations, or the Israeli government (the people who perpetrate those actions) are deserving of any respect or support.

My sympathies lie purely with the civilians on both sides who are caught in the middle.

Violence begats violence; no long term sustainable "peace" involves any sort of "eradication", it will only be achieved by a political proccess, and unfortunately neither side seem desperate to make that happen.

[Dino Scuderia]

Again, no, "defeat" is not the solution, because "defeat" can never be achieved against an enemy which has such a vast population of angry Arabs across the Mid-East to recruit from.

Similarly - the world will never "defeat" Terror with a military campaign - 4.5 years in Afghanistan, 3 years in Iraq, still no sign that either Al Qaida or the Taliban are "defeated".

You cannot stop those organisations by a war of attrition - it simply won't work.

Peace won't be achieved in the current "eye-for-an-eye" situation (or more accurately "eye, head, arm and a foot-for-an-eye").

You need to create the situation whereby the vast majority of a population of these countries finds terrorism as abhorent an idea as we do, so that there is no support for them, and no one to recruit.


During the last 40 odd years, there have been many brutal and violent terrorist attacks in Northern Ireland and mainland Britain.

At no point did the British government throw up its hands, claim that it had to "protect" itself and start bombing everyone, and when there was any significant military backlash, it only aggrevated the terrorists further.

Now that there is a political dialogue between the two sides, the violence is much reduced.

A lesson to be learned perhaps?



"Sordid", sorry



That is simply untrue. You cannot slander the entire Arab population of the planet based on the actions of a small, but "vocal" minority.

The only reason why so many people dislike Israel is because it does what it is doing now.

If Hezbollah had attacked Israel, and Israel had not responded militarily I'm sure many people would feel more sympathy for Israel, rather than the Lebanese people being killed, and their "defenders" - the terrorists.

Why did the people of Palestine democratically elect an alleged terrorist organisation? Because they are all blood-thirsty terrorists themselves, or because they feel that the only people on the planet who are on "their" side, and have any ability to stand up to Israel are Hamas?



Hmm... Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinian ambulances trying to aid people that have been hit by Israeli shells, Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinian children for throwing stones at them, Israeli soldiers shooting foreign aid workers trying to help Palestinian civilains...

Both sides have stooped to some pretty pathetic levels, and neither the terrorist organisations, or the Israeli government (the people who perpetrate those actions) are deserving of any respect or support.

My sympathies lie purely with the civilians on both sides who are caught in the middle.

Violence begats violence; no long term sustainable "peace" involves any sort of "eradication", it will only be achieved by a political proccess, and unfortunately neither side seem desperate to make that happen.

There is no political dialogue with a faction who don't care if they die and want you dead as a goal. Defeat is the answer, no matter how long it takes whenever and wherever.

You're naive that radical Islam can be reasoned with, sorry, your ideas are the kind that get even more people killed, just delayed maybe.

It's been tried for years what you are suggesting and look where things are today, nothings changed, they just get better funded and more widespread.

There can never be peace without a victor, then terms of a surrender can be set, that's where peace begins. Violence begats violence is just a peace at any cost cliche.

Britain and Ireland are not radical Islam, so the comparison does not apply.

[Coventrysucks]

There is no political dialogue with a faction who don't care if they die and want you dead as a goal. Defeat is the answer, no matter how long it takes whenever and wherever.

Utter nonsense.

Not even worthy of a response.

your ideas are the kind that get even more people killed

Unlike your idea to kill all Arabs?

You are taking a very narrow, absolute stand point, the end-game of which is a complete fantasy.

You need to realise that the situation is not Black/White, and there is this funny stuff in the middle called "grey".

[Dino Scuderia]

Utter nonsense.

Not even worthy of a response.



Unlike your idea to kill all Arabs?

You are taking a very narrow, absolute stand point, the end-game of which is a complete fantasy.

You need to realise that the situation is not Black/White, and there is this funny stuff in the middle called "grey".

So, your'e one of the blind, what can I do.

Diplomacy only has a chance if it's with a sovereign country or such.... you can't dialogue with idiology, that is a fantasy.

And you have consistantly put words in my mouth:

Unlike your idea to kill all Arabs?

Then you wonder why I get short with you. You put forth ridiculous strawman arguments . We're talking radical Islam here, not reasonable Arabs.

[Coventrysucks]

So, your'e one of the blind, what can I do.

Do nothing, please.

I hope you realise what an utterly, disgustingly and offensively arrogant that comment is.

/Fin

[scottie300z]

Again, no, "defeat" is not the solution, because "defeat" can never be achieved against an enemy which has such a vast population of angry Arabs across the Mid-East to recruit from.

i have 1 question b/c it confused me a bit on your position. You condemned israel for lumping all arabs together as their enemy and therefore are just cold bloodedly wanting to kill arabs, correct? but then here you did the same lumping here pretty much as well.

Now i do realise that the arabs are mad and all b/c the jews went and took land and what not, but then that would actually mean that isreal is right about all the arabs being the "enemy" to them, right? im not saying its justified, but its not like they are just doing it to kill people. But i still think they are stupid for that, its not going to get them any where, but in a war like this one and maybe more. So i do sorta agree w/ you.


As for my position, i dont think israel should have ever been created. Somebody needs to let the jews realise that the land of milk and honey is actually their lives, not a spot on the earth, but the whole earth while they are alive, and then heaven. and get over it, b/c its created way to much trouble and killing which is ironic when considering the purpose of it all. Frankly, both sides suck in my opinion.

[Coventrysucks]

i have 1 question b/c it confused me a bit on your position. You condemned israel for lumping all arabs together as their enemy and therefore are just cold bloodedly wanting to kill arabs, correct? but then here you did the same lumping here pretty much as well.

"Angry Arabs" - i.e. there is a fairly large number of Arabs, sufficiently annoyed at the current situation to consider a career in terrorism, mostly in the Middle-East, more than any other part of the world.

By no means all of them, and it is a small majority.

[scottie300z]

"Angry Arabs" - i.e. there is a fairly large number of Arabs, sufficiently annoyed at the current situation to consider a career in terrorism, mostly in the Middle-East, more than any other part of the world.

By no means all of them, and it is a small majority.

ah ok, i wasnt sure if i interrpreted it correctly either.