A Really Long, Drawn Out Explanation (Apology? Whatever...)

[The_Canuck]

Lets just keep it at Toronto Ownz.

I'm glad you all agree.

[Esperante]

What sewer stuff? What upgrades? and the raod construction isn't around the tower, so I fail to see how the tower caused it?

Denial. I don't understand why you would just jump so far as to say nothing I've said ever happened.

Look, when you put a 1,000 foot towere in a place where there used to be very sprawly, low lying buildings, you have capacity issues. You can't run 50 million gallons of sewage through a simple residential sewer with 5 million gallon capacity, par example. You can't have busy streets serving thousands of cars daily running on roads meant to have only a couple hundred every week running on them. And you can't have thousands of times more electricity that is needed running through a system that can't hold any of that kind of capacity. It all needs to be upgraded, and the developers who build these suburban projects aren't going to pay for it (and 99.9% of the time they refuse to pay taxes to cover it). I mean, it's expensive. So where does the cost go? The city. But the city can't really afford to pay for it, so taxes go up. Eventually, the city realizes that they can't afford to pay for all this retrofitting, and the burden is passed on to the state.

Or maybe you're just telling the truth, in which case, I'd be severely concerned. If road, electric and sewer systems around the Williams Tower/Galleria area haven't been upgraded since its development, I'd have to say you've made the biggest mistake you can possibly make. Yeah, it's a mistake to build these projects in the first place but you at least have to follow through and support them. Quite possibly the biggest problem facing America in the next 4 to 50 years (and one that Mr Bush doesn't particularily like to address) is the rapid deterioration of our infrastructure. Honestly, only about 28% of this country's former seaways are currently in useable condition. Our railroad lines are rapidly becoming less and less stable, and nobody wants to tackle this problem because nobody really thinks it means much. Our bridges our falling apart, because the people responsible always come out in the red and maintenance is an easy checkbox to cut finance in. Our power plants and electrical lines are wearing and virtually falling apart (notably in central city and rural areas), and our sewers need great attention. This country will soon be living in the dark ages if it doesn't address this incredibly serious problem. The fall of Rome can greatly be attributed to the decay of its infrastructure.

There is a big park and waterwall (kind of a Houston icon) on the williams tower grounds, by the way, on your parks theme.

Good for them, shame they screwed up on everything else.

I still also fail to see why you're so downtown centric? Whats the problem with not working downtown?

A dowtown is fair to everyone. A downtown doesn't cheat the resident with high taxes. A downtown doesn't cheat the residents of defacto segregation. A downtown is accessible by all, a downtown is efficient, a downtown serves as a true centre of vibrancy (if done right), a downtown serves as civic pride (seriously, if you're proud of Houston for the Galleria and Williams Tower, I'm rather ashamed), and, best off, a downtown is beautiful.

But don't get me wrong. Downtowns are NOT the only things that are at matter, here. It's addressing responsible growth, the integration of neighbourhoods and adding new commercial projects at reasonable levels.

Like I said originally, unless you've been here extensively, I would very much doubt that you understand my city. "Urban Planning" textbooks aren't the be all end all.

That doesn't make any sense. I mean, you could apply that to almost any argument. 'Unless you really know Nazis, I doubt you know their system. I mean, pacifist textbooks aren't the be all end all.' 'If you think Pintos are shitty cars, you probably haven't owned one. I mean, safety and quality standard textbooks aren't the be all end all.' I could go on. One doesn't need to heed any 'Urban Planning' textbook advice to tell what needs to be done. The best thing about Urban Planning is that there is never a 'textbook' case. It's always different, it's always creative. It's like saying there is a 'textbook' music. In Houston's case it just lacks some common sense, or at least a little depth in its examination in how the burden of this unsupportable development trickles down into the well being of the community.

[baddabang]

I bet esperante totally kicked sim city's ass

[Esperante]

Ha!

[my porsche]

A dowtown is fair to everyone. A downtown doesn't cheat the resident with high taxes. A downtown doesn't cheat the residents of defacto segregation. A downtown is accessible by all, a downtown is efficient, a downtown serves as a true centre of vibrancy (if done right), a downtown serves as civic pride (seriously, if you're proud of Houston for the Galleria and Williams Tower, I'm rather ashamed), and, best off, a downtown is beautiful.

That's what I'm trying to tell you! THERE ARE NO RESIDENTS IN THAT AREA! It is a commercial business district! Also what I've been saying is that THIS AREA IS VERY CLOSE TO DOWNTOWN. Therefore if downtown is accesible, this is just as easily accessible! Like I said, if you haven't been here, you don't understand! THERE ARE NO "RESIDENTS" AROUND THE TOWER! I can almost touch the Galleria and the Tower at the same time they're so close! The tower is surrounded by other buildings and malls, and a freeway! You've never seen anything other than some blue prints or a map location of it have you?

I love Houston. I'm not ashamed to say that, since there is nothing to be ashamed of! Who cares what some goofy urban planner says if the city works, makes money, has some sort of purpous, is efficient, and loved by its residents? What else is there? Nothing else matters.

I don't get why this bothers you so!

[Esperante]

You don't have to live next to such developments to be affected by them. The fact of the matter is people use these developments and people need to get them and lots of money is needed to get it so that people can use them, and the money and the problems are cascaded down to the general public. It doesn't mean ANYTHING if people live in the Galleria or Williams Tower:they both affect people behind the curtain, and it reflects in high taxation or decay of infrastructure. It impacts EVERYBODY.
The fact of the matter is that it IS very important. What happens if you overtax minority populations without money? You get extremely volatile neighbourhoods and the growth of gangs like MS. You destroy other peoples lives. Granted, poor planning isn't the sole thing to blame, but it's a pretty big contributing factor.

Who cares what some goofy urban planner says if the city...[is]loved by its residents?

You've just undermined the very existence of government. The city planners job is to make as many people happy as possible (via good planning), and to say that the happiness of a population is completely irrelevant is totally stupid and incipit. You've essentially just said it doesn't matter that the gov't doesn't care about its people. I don't know about you, but it breaks my heart to see people miserable and cheated...It seems you want to cheat these people because their God (and Constitutionally) given right to happiness shouldn't be acknowledged. Shouldn't everyone love everyone else?

[my porsche]

You don't have to live next to such developments to be affected by them. The fact of the matter is people use these developments and people need to get them and lots of money is needed to get it so that people can use them, and the money and the problems are cascaded down to the general public. It doesn't mean ANYTHING if people live in the Galleria or Williams Tower:they both affect people behind the curtain, and it reflects in high taxation or decay of infrastructure. It impacts EVERYBODY.
The fact of the matter is that it IS very important. What happens if you overtax minority populations without money? You get extremely volatile neighbourhoods and the growth of gangs like MS. You destroy other peoples lives. Granted, poor planning isn't the sole thing to blame, but it's a pretty big contributing factor.

So you mean to tell me if the tower and Galleria were in downtown (again, only like 2 miles away), it would really be THAT different? There wouldn't be gangs, there would be lower taxes, and everyone would be happier, all just because the building was built downtown instead of just outside of downtown? I find that seriously hard to believe.

[Esperante]

So you mean to tell me if the tower and Galleria were in downtown (again, only like 2 miles away), it would really be THAT different? There wouldn't be gangs, there would be lower taxes, and everyone would be happier, all just because the building was built downtown instead of just outside of downtown? I find that seriously hard to believe.

I never said that Williams Tower was the sole cause of gangs poverty. I was making a generalization:you say that there is nothing wrong with stupid planning and when I tell you the consequences and I've said TIME and TIME again that Williams Tower is only one specific example of poor suburban planning, which, as a whole, is a serious problem for America's cities.
You seem to blow everything I say completely out of proportion and it's REALLY getting annoying.