TVR no longer maker of cheap British crap. Now makes cheap "European" crap.

[henk4]

No basis in facts? Every single thing I wrote in my posts is based on facts. Countries, companies, makes - everything. So, either provide some proofs that I'm wrong, or stop bull***tting. Amen.

you just forgot to mention that Peugeot has also decided to quit production in the UK

[D'ARTOIS]

First of all, it is not my intention to belittle the British car industry. I love British cars and had my share of them and I am only blaming in general the failing managements to keep their one-time top brands on the market. The brands that still survive are only the makes for the happy few that are still 100% or for a considerable part of it, pure British.
The still remaining brands are in the hands of foreigners - save Morgan - .

We would love to see a flourishing British car industry and nothing else! To insult Pawel, who is always very well informed and documentated, is far from being gentlemanlike.

The present lack-of-interest/responsibilty at middle and high-up management level doesnot affect the car-industry only. The same counts for the aviation industry, and in a lesser way the yacht-industry.

[Coventrysucks]

How can you both say that having your posts called nonsensical and ill-informed is insulting, when your comments are nonsensical and ill-informed?

so there's really not much to ignore. I also don't have to belittle it, it's been belittling itself rather well, seeing as more and more manufacturers disappear or at least leave Britain...


...Because for me producing cars is exactly what automotive industry is about.

You think that engineering and technology is redundant or irrelevant to the automotive industry?

Ricardo, Lola, Prodrive, etc., and the world leading test & research facilities at MIRA and Millbrook - that doesn't constitute or contribute to an automotive industry?

The still remaining brands are in the hands of foreigners - save Morgan -

Aston, Jaguar, LandRover, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Ariel, Caterham, Lotus, Caparo, Noble, Marcos, Morgan, Bristol, McLaren, Radiacal, Vauxhall, and several other smaller marques are all British companies, making cars in Britain, and more companies are coming into existance all the time.

Not to mention the Ford, Honda, Nissan, Toyota, BMW plants that are still in the UK...

2001: "World Markets Automotive, a division of World Markets Research Centre, yesterday issued its annual European Automotive Productivity Index. Nissan's Sunderland plant once again topped the industry list for Europe, more than 40% ahead of therest of the field."

The second most productive plant in Europe that year was Toyota Burnaston.

How could you disregard all of the above and consider yourself well informed?

Meanwhile, across the globe, how many other countries are seeing manufacturers close to financial disaster, with closing factories, staff cuts and relocations?

Did Peugot relocate from Coventry to France? No - they went to Slovakia.

This isn't a problem that is specific to the UK, but your comments make it seem as if the UK is the only country in the world where car manufacturers can possibly fail.

Does that make sense? No!

[LandQuail]

Eh?

The average per-capita disposably yearly income in Arkansas is (gulp) $23,432, the lowest in America. The average personal income sits happily at second to last at $25,724 (thanks for bailing us out, West Virginia.)

I guess you kids across the pond are a bit more well-off, but you'd have to be awfully wealthy over here to get a TVR, or anything like it. We've got to settle for Miatas and the like if we want proper sports cars, for the most part, here in Arkansas.

Maybe the average yearly income in the U.K. is high enough to put a chicken in every pot and a TVR in every garage, but I doubt it.

In 1998 the average yearly income in Monaco, which sure looks rich on TV, was $27,000, acutally, so I reckon even the average person in Monaco could scarcely afford a TVR. ... unless you factor in inflation and the U.S. dollar's plummet, which probably means Monaco's average yearly income equates, in 2006, to 30,000 euros, or $11.6 billion U.S. dollars.

[h00t_h00t]

Maybe the average yearly income in the U.K. is high enough to put a chicken in every pot and a TVR in every garage, but I doubt it.

The average income is around £35,000, I think. However in Britain we have a high cost of living. TVRs are an exception to the rule that everything is more expensive in Britain.

[2ndclasscitizen]

TVR belongs belongs in England or as a fond memory.

Again, I point you toward Aston Martin, and the complete lack of any complaints about them being built in mainland Europe. And what about Noble? The body and chassis are built by SPF in South Effrica

NS could start his own company, and not defile something that I hold as sacred. It'd be one thing to swallow your pride and start buying other marques' drivelines again, but outsourcing everything is just stupid. That's a sham, a mockery of Wilkinson, Lilley, Wheeler.

Whilst it might be a sham to them, it's also business. Smolensky can obviously build them better and cheaper on the mainland and in Ricardo's factory. Whilst you seem to be having palpitations about it happening, you're not buying TVRs, and people who do mightn't actually give a toss, just as long as they buy a car that's crazy looking, light, fast and relatively cheap. There might be a bit of whinging coming from England (but there always is anyway) about it, but Smolensky won't give a toss, he'll just sell more cars internationally and eventually English people who want what TVR delivers will buy a TVR, unless some other company builds a car that fulfills that need.

Quite a few of Chrysler's (and I think GM's) models are built in Canada, and the LSx plant is in Canada, but Americans don't seem to mind to much. People wait 6+ months here to buy their quintessential german hot hatch the Golf GTi, that's built in South Africa.

[Coventrysucks]

Again, I point you toward Aston Martin, and the complete lack of any complaints about them being built in mainland Europe.

As I understand it only engines are currently produced in Cologne.

However, further to my earlier points I found this article:

Dec 2004:
Aston Engines to be hand built in Cologne:
"Against a background of deep gloom surrounding Germany's automotive industry--Volkswagen recording a [euro]47-million ($60-million) loss in the first nine months of 2004 and looking to reduce 30% of its labor costs in Germany over the next five years, Opel looking for 12,000 job losses in the same country, and even Mercedes-Benz suffering reduced profits and new model delays due to quality problems--there is a small ray of hope for Germany's embattled engineers. It comes from a most unexpected source, but one that is nevertheless very welcome."

[Mr.Tiv]

Whilst you seem to be having palpitations about it happening, you're not buying TVRs, and people who do mightn't actually give a toss, just as long as they buy a car that's crazy looking, light, fast and relatively cheap. There might be a bit of whinging coming from England (but there always is anyway) about it, but Smolensky won't give a toss, he'll just sell more cars internationally and eventually English people who want what TVR delivers will buy a TVR, unless some other company builds a car that fulfills that need.

I have to point you in the direction of Pistonheads.com. The thread about this contains many people who do own TVR and an employee or two. To say the least, they feel much the same way I do. There are plenty of other companies who provide such a car-yet, people always seem to look to TVR because of the aura that it carries. That aura is gone when they start production in Italy. The feelings that this evokes can't be conveyed unless you love TVR, as I have for more than half my life. You don't by a TVR just because it has all the qualities you mentioned, you buy a TVR because you love TVR. It's a thing of passion.

[Coventrysucks]

you're not buying TVRs, and people who do mightn't actually give a toss, just as long as they buy a car that's crazy looking, light, fast and relatively cheap. There might be a bit of whinging coming from England (but there always is anyway) about it, but Smolensky won't give a toss, he'll just sell more cars internationally and eventually English people who want what TVR delivers will buy a TVR, unless some other company builds a car that fulfills that need.

I don't think you really understand how TVR works.

This year they have been building very, very few cars; 2-3 per week when the factory hasn't been closed, because there is so little demand.

Most of TVRs customers will have owned one in the past, so isolating them by moving out of the UK isn't very clever.

Furthermore, how many people new to the brand will be inspired to invest £40-60,000 of their money into a car built by a company that over the last year has been surrounded by rumours of financial instability, the factory being closed/moving, and that has always had a perception of poor reliability and "dangerous" handling?

Especially when you consider that if you did indeed place an order now, there seems to be no information as to where in the world your car would be built, when it would be built, or to what specification.

Those "new" customers are going to be sticking with their Porsches et al.

Also think of the people who have cars "in-build" at the moment.

They have no idea if/when they are going to get their cars.

There is no additional information going to owners/potential owners/dealers that has not been made public officially - all there is are questions that are going unanswered.

I think the notion that TVR could just "sell more cars to other people" is naive in the extreme; if it was that simple - why aren't they doing that now? Why didn't they do that 12 months ago?

[2ndclasscitizen]

I have to point you in the direction of Pistonheads.com. The thread about this contains many people who do own TVR and an employee or two. To say the least, they feel much the same way I do. There are plenty of other companies who provide such a car-yet, people always seem to look to TVR because of the aura that it carries. That aura is gone when they start production in Italy. The feelings that this evokes can't be conveyed unless you love TVR, as I have for more than half my life. You don't by a TVR just because it has all the qualities you mentioned, you buy a TVR because you love TVR. It's a thing of passion.

Again, to you that aura of "TVR-ness" is obviously inexcorably connected with Britain. To me, it's a crazy looking, stupidly quick sportscar. But if all TVR buyers think the same way as you, then TVR is going to die. Plain and simple.

I think the notion that TVR could just "sell more cars to other people" is naive in the extreme; if it was that simple - why aren't they doing that now? Why didn't they do that 12 months ago?

I believe I wrote sell more cars internationally, which it seems to me to be a large reason behind this production move.

[Coventrysucks]

I believe I wrote sell more cars internationally, which it seems to me to be a large reason behind this production move.

If it was that simple - why aren't they doing that now? Why didn't they do that 12 months ago?

[Mr.Tiv]

If it was that simple - why aren't they doing that now? Why didn't they do that 12 months ago?

I know, I know! It's not that simple.

[2ndclasscitizen]

If it was that simple - why aren't they doing that now? Why didn't they do that 12 months ago?

It may well have been that their Blackpool factory couldn't support the engineering and extra production capacity needed.

[D'ARTOIS]

Let's be very clear: the main reason for the downfall in orders for TVR is definately not a drop in quality - it is borne by the simple fact that only one model - now two are left-hand drive.

TVR never had concentrated on the development of left hand driven cars. Doing so, ill fating their export opportunities on a large scale. Now 260 staff of ex-TVR will suffer from this brilliant example of British management.

TVR is closed right now and a new production site is still not announced. It could be Italy but don't count on it.
The engines might be produced by Ricardo, but even that is not sure at all.

Deliverytimes for future cars cannot be given - at this moment -, but certainly within a short time production will start up again, according to my informer. And, another certainty is that development and production will be concentrated on left hand driven models!
Opening the gates for an increase in sales and production.

Good luck TVR!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.Tiv]

It may well have been that their Blackpool factory couldn't support the engineering and extra production capacity needed.

Expansion does not neccessitate an outsourcing of production.

.Let's be very clear: the main reason for the downfall in orders for TVR is definately not a drop in quality - it is borne by the simple fact that only one model - now two are left-hand drive.

TVR never had concentrated on the development of left hand driven cars. Doing so, ill fating their export opportunities on a large scale. Now 260 staff of ex-TVR will suffer from this brilliant example of British management.

TVR is closed right now and a new production site is still not announced. It could be Italy but don't count on it.
The engines might be produced by Ricardo, but even that is not sure at all.

Deliverytimes for future cars cannot be given - at this moment -, but certainly within a short time production will start up again, according to my informer. And, another certainty is that development and production will be concentrated on left hand driven models!
Opening the gates for an increase in sales and production.

Good luck TVR!!!!!!!!!!

I have a few questions for you. The first being: do you know what never means? Because, there was a long span of time when the American market and lhd was a huge part of TVRs sales.

The second question I must ask you is why would you doubt that Ricardo will be producing the egines. That was to be expected anyway; if they were to make the speed six meet Euro and US regulations, they would have to take over-that is the only sensible plan of action.

Now, to my main question... Who is this "informer," by which I assume you mean informant. You say things are "certainties," yet at this point nothing is guarenteed in the future of TVR. TVR is teetering on the edge of the hole once again, and leaving Britain negates most of that, which justifies TVRs continued existenced.

Now, for anyone who cares to listen, I will present the plan of action which I favor. Resume production in Blackpool, however limited it may be. Start Developing 3 new cars: a T350 replacement, a Sagaris replacement and a Tuscan. Swallow your pride, whilst retaining you dignitiy, naturally, and send the production of the Speed Six. Bring in 3 engines: an I4 an I6(or a V6 for that matter) and a V8-going in the aforementioned cars in their respective order. Essentially, a return to the glory days of TVR is in order.