You will puke.

[DieFrage]

I cant stand it when people try and convince people they're right - I don't mind people's opinions...by all means, get it off your chest - but remember, not everyone has to agree with you. In that respect, fundimentalist christians and hardcore atheists are one and the same.

To quote me from another forum: "I can't change your mind or opinion, I can only mercilessly bombard you with facts and ideas to prove you wrong." J/K, I pretty much agree. But it is possible to have good morals and ethics without a religion, despite the fact that fundamentalists of any religion say no religion means evil hearted person.

[VtecMini]

I cant stand it when people try and convince people they're right - I don't mind people's opinions...by all means, get it off your chest - but remember, not everyone has to agree with you. In that respect, fundimentalist christians and hardcore atheists are one and the same.

I think that's a little harsh, actually. Although there are exceptions, I think religious fanatics are generally worse in this respect.

It's the preachers stood on boxes in town that really get my goat. I don't want your religion. If it suits you, great. But why are you trying to force it up on me? (That's aimed at my hypothetical preacher, not Monty, just so we're clear on that)

however, the bible isn't without merit either - all that stuff about being kind is pretty hard to argue with...

Now there's an interesting point which very few people have thought out.

Look at it this way. I am an atheist. I don't steal. I don't murder. I don't rape. I pay everything that I owe. And so on and so forth... Now, why do it choose to live this way? Because I have a sense of morals, rights and wrongs.

Christians do not steal, murder, rape etc. either. But the difference? A christian does not do those things becuse they fear god. A christian knows that if they commit a sin in the eyes of their god then they will go to hell. It's this knowledge, or fear, if you will, that prevents christians from sinning.

Me? I just do it because I think it's the right thing to do, not because I'm scared of the consequences. I personally think that's a really important point and take great pleasure in pointing it out to holier than thou christians, who more often than not just look sheepish and change the subject.

[Wouter Melissen]

Also a fundamentalistic atheist is unlikely to claim that any believer will burn in hell as a result of their persistent believing.

[jediali]

I think that's a little harsh, actually. Although there are exceptions, I think religious fanatics are generally worse in this respect.

It's the preachers stood on boxes in town that really get my goat. I don't want your religion. If it suits you, great. But why are you trying to force it up on me? (That's aimed at my hypothetical preacher, not Monty, just so we're clear on that)

Now there's an interesting point which very few people have thought out.

Look at it this way. I am an atheist. I don't steal. I don't murder. I don't rape. I pay everything that I owe. And so on and so forth... Now, why do it choose to live this way? Because I have a sense of morals, rights and wrongs.

Christians do not steal, murder, rape etc. either. But the difference? A christian does not do those things becuse they fear god. A christian knows that if they commit a sin in the eyes of their god then they will go to hell. It's this knowledge, or fear, if you will, that prevents christians from sinning.

Me? I just do it because I think it's the right thing to do, not because I'm scared of the consequences. I personally think that's a really important point and take great pleasure in pointing it out to holier than thou christians, who more often than not just look sheepish and change the subject.

Im afraid Christians wouldnt agree. The gospel is about Jesus rescuing us from our sins. Therefore christians actions/attitude is mostly because of his/her response to serve God - not a fear that they are damned to hell for sin! Jesus never once warned of Hell in his time as a teacher. It would be unwise for a christian to use Hell as a motivation to believe, its more about personal experience. As for sin itself, its anything offensive to God (could be obvious like murder/stealing etc or ignorance of God which is more personal)-so sin is not related to morality. You can be moral and be sinful simultaneously.

[jediali]

I cant stand it when people try and convince people they're right - I don't mind people's opinions...by all means, get it off your chest - but remember, not everyone has to agree with you. In that respect, fundimentalist christians and hardcore atheists are one and the same.

I too find it difficult to take the bible seriously - just read Revelations....its like the author was on LSD.....however, the bible isn't without merit either - all that stuff about being kind is pretty hard to argue with...

Perhaps in a few millenia, science will have answers to everything, and myth/religion will be a distant memory. Until then, I'm not writing God off completely.

this is a good post

[VtecMini]

Im afraid Christians wouldnt agree. The gospel is about Jesus rescuing us from our sins. Therefore christians actions/attitude is mostly because of his/her response to serve God - not a fear that they are damned to hell for sin! Jesus never once warned of Hell in his time as a teacher. It would be unwise for a christian to use Hell as a motivation to believe, its more about personal experience. As for sin itself, its anything offensive to God (could be obvious like murder/stealing etc or ignorance of God which is more personal)-so sin is not related to morality. You can be moral and be sinful simultaneously.

Okay, slight difference aside, that's not really that much different though, is it? To do the right thing because you're serving god still, to me at least, seems morally flawed compared to just doing the right thing because it's what you want to do.

To me it's like navigating across town with or without a map. Ultimately you'll end up in the same place, but without the map you got there based on the decisions you made, perhaps based on previous knowledge, as apposed to simply following directions.

Does that analogy make sense to anyone else? I quite like it.

[jediali]

Okay, slight difference aside, that's not really that much different though, is it? To do the right thing because you're serving god still, to me at least, seems morally flawed compared to just doing the right thing because it's what you want to do.

To me it's like navigating across town with or without a map. Ultimately you'll end up in the same place, but without the map you got there based on the decisions you made, perhaps based on previous knowledge, as apposed to simply following directions.

Does that analogy make sense to anyone else? I quite like it.

you have a really good point. I am happy to say that I am a christian and that my understanding of serving God means i put him first, but since i believe God cares for us - poeple neednt be mistreated, or misrepresented.

[Monty_Burns]

this is a good post

I have no choice but to concur on this one

[nota]

I can't see anything "hardcore" in aethist rationalism

If anything, this description seems more befitting to those amongst us who still cling to fantabulism and fantasism aka Supernatural gobbldygook including God, the Tooth Fairy or Elves at rear of garden etc

[jediali]

I can't see anything "hardcore" in aethist rationalism

If anything, this description seems more befitting to those amongst us who still cling to fantabulism and fantasism aka Supernatural gobbldygook including God, the Tooth Fairy or Elves at rear of garden etc

maybe its in the eagerness it comes forth in.

[nota]

Let's say a person eagerly disbelieves in the premise that aliens walk among us ... would you rate this as 'hardcore' too?

[henk4]

Let's say a person eagerly disbelieves in the premise that aliens walk among us ... would you rate this as 'hardcore' too?

such a person can be easily converted, show him a pic of GWB

[SilverG35SportC]

I found that guy in the lab coat to be a howl. I mean I cannot believe the words coming out of his mouth. All of his own evidence comes from a book. Personally I can't understand people who actually believe in creation. I mean the whole story is a great one to teach to kids etc..but this middle-aged mechanic who is doing videos on YouTube to try and preach about his religion is ridiculous. I mean he believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that somehow Adam pulled out a rib and God created Mary from that.Also, if God is this supposedly all powerful being, how could he/she not have the foresight to see that Adam would be lonely. What would you expect by putting one dude on a massive planet? Also,if creation is actually how man came to be, that means that there was rampant, I mean RAMPANT incest. From two people to today's general population. Sorry if this has turned into a rant. When I was a young child we were taught the story of man through the creation POV. They were supposed to be digested by the students as 'good stories', rather than religious texts. I enjoyed the stories as a kid because they were so interesting. But I mean actually comparing this story of creation against a long protracted process of elimination and natural selection is ridiculous in my mind. Again this is only my opinion and (obviously) believe what you will.

[speednine]

Lets not forget the bible is an interpretation of the word of god, through man. It is made very clearly that man is not perfect thus the reason for jesus coming to earth to experience the hardships. Over time the bible has been interpreted to fit people political agendas of the time. To be a christian you don't have to believe everything in the bible, you just have to bleieve jesus was the son of God. With that being said just because there are different sects of the similar relligion that are absolute retards, doesn't mean everyone is. trust me the church/ any religion is full of hypocrisy, so you must take everything with a grain of salt.

Of course i know all of this because i am a higher being then any of you. So don't quesiton me, my word is as strong as god buddha, mohommad, jackoff-a-farians and any other religion that is based around a sole being.

[Jack_Bauer]

Of course i know all of this because i am a higher being then any of you. So don't quesiton me, my word is as strong as god buddha, mohommad, jackoff-a-farians and any other religion that is based around a sole being.

All praise speednine!!!