Saddam recieves Death Sentence

[Rockefella]

I'm going to Iraq next week, taking over as dictator.

[go.pawel]

huh? mate, the hurricane, bush might not stop. but as long as black people (New Orleans is predominantly black) are second-class citizens, not worthy of money for protection against natural disasters which are prone to happen , he CAN be held responsible for a catastrophe that could have been a lot, well, less disastrous.

Sorry, never been black, I can't relate.

and, well, the "dubious" part with hitler´s contracts is probably the fact that american companies did great business with hitler while at war with the us. IBM & coca cola just to name two.

True. I could also add GM and Ford to that list. But the dubious thing about it was the fact of collaborating with a nazi government. I don't see the relation to Halliburton and others.

as for your other fox news "facts" about "terrorism" id rather not even mention. israeli and american style state terrorism is so much worse, so much more cowardly, so much more cruel.

I'd rather you not only mention the facts but also explain what you find wrong about them. Unless you're just a pathetic poser, contesting facts just for the sake of doing it, instead of proving them wrong with counterarguments.
I'd be also very glad to hear some more details about that cruel and coward israelo-american terrorists. Because as long as I'm dealing with geopolitics, I've never heard about them before.
PS. What's with Fox News? Some TV channel? I'm afraid I don't understand.

[go.pawel]

I'm going to Iraq next week, taking over as dictator.

Take your place in the queue

[man 430gt]

LOL, I heard on BBC he's got 31 days to protest(?) (can't remember the word but something like that) also wander if they gonna show it Live on TV?

[Rockefella]

LOL, I heard on BBC he's got 31 days to protest(?) (can't remember the word but something like that) also wander if they gonna show it Live on TV?

Somehow I don't think so.

[blingbling]

Do it properly and you'll snap your neck. Do it wrong and you'll strangle yourself to death.

Or worse, get choked to death.

[Rockefella]

Or worse, get choked to death.

Which is the same thing as getting strangled to death?

[nota]

But let me remind you that Saddam was trialed and sentenced by Iraqis not Americans.

Really? How many judges did the occupiers go through before they found one to deliver the 'right' verdict?

Saying that Saddam's trial or its verdict represents Iraqi justice (not American force majeure) is about as shallow as claiming that Iraq has a democracy

[syko]

True. Unlike Hitler, who was elected totally legally, without recounting etc.

For example the same thing happens in Poland now, yet no-one sane compares our ruling twins to Hitler.

Plus, I don't remember Hitler being engaged in any dubious contracts.

Godwin's Law - As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. Coined by Mike Godwin in 1990.
Just to lighter this up a bit.

[adamfraser]

LOL, I heard on BBC he's got 31 days to protest(?) (can't remember the word but something like that) also wander if they gonna show it Live on TV?

30 Days to protest.

It may be a public hanging, and if that is true im sure someone somewhere will be filming it and it will be stuck up on the internet.

[Vindesh17]

Saddam was the one thing holding Iraq together. That country needed a strong dictator like Saddam. Bush needs to understand that democracy doesn't work for every country.

["Clevor" Angel]

But the election itself wasn't flawed.

The Nazis were elected the largest party in the Reichstag in 1932, President Hindenburg offered Hitler a subordinate position in the cabinet. The chancellorship went instead to Kurt von Schleicher, who resigned on Jan. 28, 1933 Amid collapsing parliamentary government and huge fights between Nazis and Communists, Hindenburg called Hitler to be chancellor of a coalition cabinet and Hitler took office on Jan. 30. He used brutality and subversion to transform Germany into his dictatorship. The Nazi's incited anti-Communist hysteria the Nazis and Nationalists won a bare majority of Reichstag seats in the elections of Mar. 5. After the Communists had been BARRED, and after a show of strength by Hitler's storm troopers the Reichstag voted to give Hitler dictatorial powers.

Of course, but what does it have to do with businessmen-politicians corruption? What you're talking abou here are matters of espionage, diplomacy, sabotage and genocide. That's not what I was talking about.

What do you consider dubious contracts?

[LotusLocost]

I'm going to Iraq next week, taking over as dictator.

Don't forget your 1.8T

[crisis]

If the U.S. has not accepted that there is a civil war in Iraq they better get used to the idea soon.

[go.pawel]

I got tired of this discussion. I'm gonna summarize my views on Saddam's trial and the situation in Iraq in general and then I'll finally go to sleep.

Saddam's trail
The trial was supposed to be a katharsis for Iraq. Instead it became a sort of a low-budget soap opera, transmitted live in arabic tvs. A popular one, I must add. There was everything: countless rows with judges, odd patriotic and religious speeches, assasinations of three of Saddam's defenders and hunger-strikes and boycotts by those that remained alive.
We also had a Kurdish judge, who tendered his resignation after being reminded that he should treat suspects more firmly, a former american general attorney, who apparently suffers mentally of his age, trying to defend every murderous dictator in the world, Iraqi government publicly stating they want Saddam sentenced to death and terrified witnesses, not showing their faces and using voice-altering devices.
Some people insisted on the trial being postponed or moved to some third-party country. But I see no reason to treat a mass murderer better than the thousands people currently being trialed in iraqi courts. Iraqi justice administration is aof course still in bad shape and needs further rebuilding. But the same is true about Iraq in general. Should the Iraqis also close the hospitals or schools until they're properly working again?
When we look at the trial from the European point of view, than of course it was against all standards. But how can one expect, when the country is in constant turmoil, this particulat trial to be normal, calm and competent?
The Iraqis did their best in trialing their former dictator. There were mistakes, but no-one should question the legal force and validity of the sentence. Even if not all the accusations were true, for every single of them Saddam should've been sentenced for the highest possible punishment. In Iraqi law it means death by hanging.
That punishment may seem to severe for some. Organisations like Amnesty International (which actually I was a member for some time) probably already prepare petitions to save Saddam. It's easy to condemn death penalty, watching tv in your cozy flat in some peaceful, lawful european country. But Bagdad is today a totally different world. There are hundreds of hordes roaming the streets, of which only some are religious warriors, terrorists or rebels with a cause. Most of them are merely bandits, murdering, kidnapping, torturing and raping only to get money or kudos. And they feel totally unpunished.
Believing that this situation can be solved using civilized, "european" methods is simply stupid and irresponsible.


The situation in Iraq
Very often Iraq is compared to Vietnam. But IMO a more suitable comparison is that with Afghanistan. In the 80s American government supplied afghan fighters with money and weapons. But when the Soviet Union left Afghanistan in 1989, USA also left and lost any interest in this country. That proved to be a fatal mistake, as it allowed the talibs and Al-Kaida to take over the country.
The same can happen in Iraq. Al-Kaida's man no. 2, Ajman Al-Zawahiri wrote in his book, that the most important strategic goal of Al-Kaida after losing Afghanistan is to get control of some other muslim country or region to make it a base for further attacks on the West. An ideal place for it would be the central-western sunni part of Iraq. Al Zarkawi and Al Muhadjir, leaders of Al-Kaida in Iraq, made their intentions clear inviting Osama ben Laden to Iraq.
There's also a second problem. Withdrawing from Iraq would just help ben Laden, who states that the US is just a 'paper tiger' not able to finish what they start. Of course, the Americans made mistakes. Their perplexity allowed the rebeliants to start fighting. But withdrawing now would mean giving the terrorists exactly what they want. IMO american forces should no longer try to make a democracy of Iraq. If the Iraqis don't want it, ok. If they do want, let them work it out on their own. But the troops are necessary to stop the sunni rebeliants from growing in power and to prevent Al-Kaida getting settled in Iraq.

Howgh! I'm going to sleep now. Good night

Edit: Oh, one more thing. Clevor, you don't have to lecture me on German history. I'm Polish, I know it much better than I would like too.