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Thread: Saoutchik

  1. #1
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    Saoutchik

    At last I discovered the magic era of the pre war cars, 1930-1940 and 1947-1953 - great cars, great designs.
    Best of all : Saoutchik, Jaques - superlative cars like the Bucciali, Lago Talbot and many others.

    Now my questions: Most books are glossy photobpooks.
    Are there any books that reveil technical drawings, blueprints etc of such desings (Bugatti, Saoutchik, Touring etc)

    Can somebody give me links to sites where vintage rolling chassis and engines engines are offered.

    I would be most grateful.

  2. #2
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    Can somebody give me links to sites where vintage rolling chassis and engines engines are offered.
    Damn... not easy links to find.
    it was actually me who killed vasilli zaitsev, heinz thorwald, carlos hatchcock, and simo hayha

  3. #3
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    Not the easiest of questions, as far as I remember I have never seen a rolling chassis of any of such cars being offered lately or at all.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #4
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    That's the point : I do not believe that there are many rolling chassis around, I have found some but they are from British made cars i.e. high engines and high radiators.

    I believe that the most perspecive source might be France.

    But my question is also are there any drawings left of designs such as Saoutchik?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by D'ARTOIS
    That's the point : I do not believe that there are many rolling chassis around, I have found some but they are from British made cars i.e. high engines and high radiators.

    I believe that the most perspecive source might be France.

    But my question is also are there any drawings left of designs such as Saoutchik?
    I am sure there must be drawings left, we have some books on Delahaye (Le Grand Livre) and Delage (La Belle Voiture Francaise) which do have some drawings, but rather more pictures. I would think that the archives of some French museums (Mulhouse?) or the collection of somebody like the late Serge Pozzoli might be a possible source.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  6. #6
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    Henk,

    The point is that a very good friend of mine is on the brink of buying a rolling chassis. There are two for sale of the Bentley Mk VI that could be used.
    One is equipped with the standard 4.3 ltr 6 cyl and there is another one with an additional 8 cylinder in line.

    Next he wants to equip this original Bentley frame with a coachwork that looks like Saoutchik.
    I can help him to develop the design, I design large motoryachts, so a small structure like a car is not that difficult, put it in Autocad or Solixd Works e.g. Rhino, and we have a technical very precise 3D design. From that, we can make a cutting file with sheet developments and plasmacut all the sheets in say 1,2 mm aluminium Al Mg 4,5 that is very corrosion resistant, rather than using standard alloys.

    That will save many hours in shaping the sheets, secondly, working this way, we have an excact view on the weightdistributions.

    The only disadvantage is the rough styling of the Bentley frameworks.
    Th CoG os a postwar Bentley is extremely high and cannot be compared whith the much more advanced designs of the Italians and the French.

    So, the Bentley chassis might not the one we are looking for.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by D'ARTOIS
    Henk,

    The point is that a very good friend of mine is on the brink of buying a rolling chassis. There are two for sale of the Bentley Mk VI that could be used.
    One is equipped with the standard 4.3 ltr 6 cyl and there is another one with an additional 8 cylinder in line.

    Next he wants to equip this original Bentley frame with a coachwork that looks like Saoutchik.
    I can help him to develop the design, I design large motoryachts, so a small structure like a car is not that difficult, put it in Autocad or Solixd Works e.g. Rhino, and we have a technical very precise 3D design. From that, we can make a cutting file with sheet developments and plasmacut all the sheets in say 1,2 mm aluminium Al Mg 4,5 that is very corrosion resistant, rather than using standard alloys.

    That will save many hours in shaping the sheets, secondly, working this way, we have an excact view on the weightdistributions.

    The only disadvantage is the rough styling of the Bentley frameworks.
    Th CoG os a postwar Bentley is extremely high and cannot be compared whith the much more advanced designs of the Italians and the French.

    So, the Bentley chassis might not the one we are looking for.
    Interesting, if you want to go another way, this a Saoutchik bodied Cadillac, this was on show at this year's Pebble Beach Concours. Cadillac chassis might be more easily to find, but not in Europe
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    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  8. #8
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    I was quite sure that you could come with well thought suggestions, however, no, Robert extremely dislikes the Amercan bravado cars.

    Of course we can build a car from scratch - but that is not the point. The cars that really does interest us are way out of reach. And a vintage chassis with an own developed coachwork in Saoutchik style is actually what we are aiming for.

    Just a few hours ago I got from a French friend a tip that there is a Bugatti chassis for sale, complete with engine but without wheels and other parts.
    I am waiting for the pictures to come so we might establish what model it is, but in any case it will offer more possibilities than the Bentley, although the Petersen designs, based on the Mk VI are not bad at all!

    But that means that you are obliged to rebuild the chassis also and that is not what we are looking for.

    I am busy now with a basic design that could be used. The big advantage of modern CD software is that you van make a combination between Autocad and, for example Solid Works, same programs that are used today by the pro car designers.

    We have approached a very well known coachbuilder in Holland and just like Voisin we can mix aviation techniques and those of contemporary yachtbuilding in structuring a beautiful coach on a vintage chassis.

    Keep you posted!

    Ans thanks for the suggestions.

  9. #9
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    just thought of another car, the only Jaguar SS100 with a Saoutchik body...

    What Bugatti type would that be?
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    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  10. #10
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    Absolutely Henk, you are hitting the nail on the nead so to speak!
    This type of coach looks immensely attractive to Robert and me; in case we are obliged to use the Mk Vi concept we have something like this here, the Hispano Suiza; although this is a very complex and expensive coach to build. The point is that in many vintage cars there are developable bodypanels that does almost form themself, absoluteltely the contrary with Saoutchik designs, they have more curves than Raquel Welch and Monroe together, so to speak.

    Car builders are not yachtbuilders and they use wooden frames as moulds, while we are using presses and dies to get the right curves and angles.
    Coachbuilders do not have that sort of industrial heavy tools; ( with exception maybe Farina c.s.) in any case not the small individual coachbuilders.

    This is the major reason that they build their bodies out of fiberglass, which of course, has not the same appreciation as a metal bodywork has. If you agree.

    Even Ferrari, in the older days, were using very simple techniques to form the bodies of their cars by using ver small sheets and welding them together over tubular frames.

    In our processes, we are used to form large sheets of pre-shaped metal and weld that onto the frames.

    For one-off designs, this is an ideal method - it will save time and the drawings that are preceeding the manufacture are super precise: making sure that components can be precisely fit in, confirming that any part can be manually reached etc.

    If you have a well designed chassis available, that has all the good properties you require from a car, this is then an ideal way to build one-off's.

    In a later stage, I will show you how such a process could work.
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    Last edited by D'ARTOIS; 11-09-2006 at 10:45 AM.

  11. #11
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    The Buccialli book by Heut has many Saoutchik drawings, including cars that were never made. It would be neat to create one of those.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickrich
    The Buccialli book by Heut has many Saoutchik drawings, including cars that were never made. It would be neat to create one of those.
    Huet (Christian)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by henk4
    Huet (Christian)
    Yeah. Almost all the information known about these Buccialis come from him, but most people don't credit their source.

  14. #14
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    What doe that mean: that they are not original?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by D'ARTOIS
    What doe that mean: that they are not original?
    there is only one original Bucciali left, and even that is fitted with a significant number of new parts.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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