Strictly Technical, Balancing X4:
“1stly is is advantageous to have the output shaft inline with the centre of the engine. Having a propeller or flywheel offset is not suitable for most applications, so your idea wont work, so stop going on about it.”
So, the power shaft is not used as balancing shaft not because it is not possible but to have the output shaft inline with the centre of the X4 engine, in expense of the additional friction, weight, noise, cost etc the extra balancing shafts introduce.
Revetec can rotate the X4 for a few degrees to have the output shaft acting as a balancing shaft and still be inline with the centre. Nothing changes, after all two of the four cylinders of X4 already “look” downwards. Only the second order vibrations will be slightly inclined.
I do not care how Revetec will balance the 1st order inertia vibrations of their X4. I insisted on the balancing issue to see, and to show, their reasoning about their solutions.
To accuse someone for not being an engineer is not clever. He maybe is.
Either he is, or not, instead of counting his diplomas it is more correct to judge what he writes and to discover his mistakes. This is the challenge.
Pneumatic, in a self defence post, said he is an engineer.
From Revetec’s posts and mistakes I suppose Brad is not. Is he?
Or the rules are different for Brad because he has already spend a few million dollars of Revetec’s share holders (call them innocent victims if you like) without having nothing to show yet?
Revetec denies to comment simple and straight questions:
Is the Boxer Revetec project phased out?
It seems yes.
Is there a car with a Revetec engine for tests?
It seems no.
Are all hopes on the X4 Revetec prototype?
It seems yes.
Is there a hope this X4 engine to get into wide use?
Even if it was perfect in reliability and had low consumption, good partial load operation, wide rev range and flat torque, its shape does not fit to common applications. It is also the fact that it uses old cylinder heads with side cams. With four “state of the art” cylinder heads (four valves per cylinder, two camshafts nper head, four VVT systems etc) and a few timing belts, the shape and dimensions of the X4 becomes even worse.
Revetec claims for airplane applications. Suppose X4 is so good to take the whole “small airplane” market. Is it enough? No.
It is not a matter of belief. An engine will never work because I, and a few thousand others, believe it will. An engine will work if it is correctly designed and constructed.
There is nothing magical in it.
The magic is elsewhere:
To persuade people, who have not the necessary technical background, to gamble their money on your dream.
Strictly Technical, thrust loads:
“About thrust loads....you constantly missing the point and I'm getting tiresome of your statements. I'm talking about deflected thrust from converting reciprocating motion into rotational motion. Go back and read previous threads. I posted a diagram.”
Does anyone in this forum (especially the ones who “grew up and became ENGINEERS”) can explain why the trust loads of the X4 are smaller than those in the conventional engine.
Revetec is tired of “explaining”.
Strictly Technical, Long connecting rod:
“Conrod ratios....Ho hum....This has been discussed before. Many companies have tried to run a sine wave piston plot. The most prominent is the scotch yoke engine....Guess what?....It's supercharged.....Why? Because with a sine wave plot the initial piston velocity is slow and has poor volumetric efficiency.
You state that your Pattakon engine goes to 9,000rpm...?????????? Why so high in a production car? 9,000rpm is getting closer to better breathing efficiency. 9,000rpm means more fuel usage. You go on and on about it, why don't you post an analysis of volumetric efficiency of a normal conrod ratio and an infite on like your family's engine, and post the analysis. Make it and indepenent report from a reputable entity please. High revs doesn't mean efficiency.”
An engine (like the Scotch Yoke) is supercharged not because it cannot breath as naturally aspirated, but because the designer decided so.
Anyone can read the posts of Revetec on this specific subject.
Revetec took a mistaken “piston motion versus crank angle” plot and explained why, as the con rod gets shorter, “suddenly” the engine loses its breathing efficiency, as it also does when the con rod gets too long. Then Revetec admitted the mistake. The posts are written and anybody can read them.
Now we are going on a new round.
Pattakon has a naturally aspirating engine with infinite con-rod length (this is what harmonic is) having “excellent” breathing at low / medium revs (this exactly means 3+ Kp*m torque on the flywheel at 3000 rpm, from 354cc single cylinder of 75mm Bore and 80 mm stroke).
It simply proves Revetec’s “law for long con-rod” is fake.
The Harmonic Pattakon engine ( www.pattakon.com/educ/harmonic.exe ) is a different project than the Variable Valve Actuation or VVA system of Pattakon ( www.pattakon.com/vts/VTS1.htm , www.pattakon.com/vvar/OnBoard/Vtec.htm and www.pattakon.com ), which is different than the Pulling Piston Engine of Pattakon (www.pattakon.com/ppe/index.html ), which is different than the Pattakon GRECO engine (www.pattakon.com/greco/index.html ), which is different than the Pulling Rod Engine of Pattakon ( www.pattakon.com/pre/index.html ), which is different than the Portable Flyer project of Pattakon ( www.pattakon.com/fly/index.html ).
Only GRECO Pattakon engine has something in common with Revetec.
Anybody can compare the two solutions.
To have an engine capable for 9000 rpm does not mean you have to operate all the time the engine at these revs. It simply means that when you like (or need) you can operate the engine at these revs, with safety.
To have an engine that falls apart at 4500 rpm means that it is to risky to rely on it. Just one wrong gear shift is enough.
The Honda Civic VTEC production car has its max power at 7600 rpm and its rev limit is at 8000 rpm. Having the Pattakon VVA system on it, the rev limiter is set to 9000 rpm. The rev range extends at both ends.
Just think how significant it is to have a small engine (i.e. with good mileage) capable to provide, when necessary, extreme power. Think also how often you actually use the maximum power output of your car.
You can drive the Pattakon VVA prototype car with 5th in the gearbox and 800 to 2000 rpm into Athens traffic all day. And any moment you like, or need, you can just press deeply the gas pedal and operate the same engine at 7000 or 8000 or 9000 rpm.
No one said that at 9000 rpm you get good fuel efficiency. What you get at 9000 rpm is TOP power output.
The idea is to have an engine with wide rev range and optimised breathing every where.
Installing (retrofitting) the VVA system on a sport car engine (i.e. an engine capable to rev reliably and to breath efficiently at high revs) what you get is an engine that combines driver friendly operation and fuel efficiency met only in soft family cars with power and torque and response met only in pure racing cars.
Strictly Reality:
”My thinking is the only reason your posting here and being pissed off with this discussion is to pedal your families engine. Don't you think it's strange no one has started a topic on your engine?”
Pattakon, without spending a single cent of share holders, has many more patents, projects in progress, working prototypes and cars for drive test than Revetec has. Search to find out.
Pattakon has more engineers than Revetec ever imagine to have.
If you were less arrogant, before writing you should make a web search to see in how many forums the Pattakon VVA project, and the rest Pattakon projects, are published.
The Pattakon VVA project, alone, is published in more than 200 forums (engineering and car relative). Is it enough?
In the forums the members are asked to say their objections and opinion regarding a specific Pattakon project. This is when a project starts. We focus on the objections because these are what really counts (and because the “fresh” eye is, sometimes, invaluable).
After having a few good prototypes to measure, to test and to evaluate, the forums can offer nothing to Pattakon.
Only if someone else asks details for a Pattakon project, Pattakon replies either to e-mails or to forum threads, as happened the last few months in the LS1 GM forums (regarding the side cam version of Pattakon VVA for big V8 engines), or in the Atlas F1 forum, or in the TDI forum etc etc.
To confuse people in order to applause you, without they really understand the subject you talk about and without providing the necessary details to them, is not Pattakon’s policy.
Pattakon is not “fishing” for fresh share holders’ money.
PS1.
I invited Revetec or even a fried of Revetec, or a Greek shareholder of Revetec, or whoever they want to sent, to come to see, to measure, to test and above all to drive himself, in real conditions, Pattakon’s prototypes.
PS2.
If there is interest in any of Pattakon projects by the members of the UltimateCarPage forum, I will be glad to reply.
For the Pattakon VVA I suggest, after an initial surf along the VVA topics, to read the www.pattakon.com/vva/VVA_Idle/VVA_Idle.htm and post their questions.
Thanks
Manolis Pattakos
Reply With Quote
AND every one on UCP is experiencing my teams solutions !!
Originally Posted by revetec
), can you so kindly post a picture of yourself? Because each time I see your posts, I picture a man with a big red nose, curly orange hair, big blue shoes while juggling two balls and wipes his mouth with toilet paper every time he speaks (think about that one 
So silly to ask really if you understood business.
