multiple turbo diesel madness

[Ferrer]

I agree if you can give me the advantages of a petrol engine

-It is more rewarding for the driver in a car with sporty intentions.
-It's cheaper to buy, therefore it makes economical sense if you do reduced mileages.
-Usually they are lighter which results in better handling.
-They don't exude huge clouds of black smoke when you really put you foot down.

That's all I can think of now... is that enough?

[henk4]

-It is more rewarding for the driver in a car with sporty intentions.
-It's cheaper to buy, therefore it makes economical sense if you do reduced mileages.
-Usually they are lighter which results in better handling.
-They don't exude huge clouds of black smoke when you really put you foot down.

That's all I can think of now... is that enough?

black smoke is history too, since the FAP introduction...
the heavier engine often results in a much more stable roadholding
prices are functions of taxes
It is financially rewarding when your sporty intentions cost far less fuel...

[Ferrer]

the heavier engine often results in a much more stable roadholding

I think you're taking it a bit too far here. Lighter engine less nose heavy handling characteristics. I don't think that a petrol engined "normal" car is that unstable...

prices are functions of taxes

Yes, but as an example the C1 petrol costs 850 € less than the C1 diesel. For a car that is used only occasionally the C1 makes for a better alternative economically speaking. And that's even before you start wondering about insurance and road taxes.

It is financially rewarding when your sporty intentions cost far less fuel...

I'm prepared to spend that little bit more on petrol to fully enjoy dirivng my car...

[henk4]

I think you're taking it a bit too far here. Lighter engine less nose heavy handling characteristics. I don't think that a petrol engined "normal" car is that unstable...

Yes, but as an example the C1 petrol costs 850 € less than the C1 diesel. For a car that is used only occasionally the C1 makes for a better alternative economically speaking. And that's even before you start wondering about insurance and road taxes.

I'm prepared to spend that little bit more on petrol to fully enjoy dirivng my car...

straight line stability is greatly enhanced
For some BMW versions the diesel is the cheapest
and for your third point: I am prepared to spend that little less to fully enjoy driving my car...

[Ferrer]

Do you really think we are going to reach an agreement... ever?

[henk4]

Do you really think we are going to reach an agreement... ever?

probably, once you do your ride in that elusive BMW...

[Waugh-terfall]

Also. It's not so satisying pulling up at lights and pulling away quickly with a friend doing the same in the next lane. You just look a muppet..

Don't get me wrong, I actually quite like modern diesels, hell I even like the noise. But still, I don't think you can beat the noise of a Mini Cooper S and anything with a 6-cylinder + petrol engine.

[Lagonda]

Petrol Audi's, thats what you want!

But all diesels sound like modern tractors. And by god! Tractors run 4/5/6 cylinder diesel engines too!!!

I'd rather die than buy and drive an Audi, any Audi. But, that's a whole other topic.

I disagree about the sound. Sure no diesel engine has a great sound but those VAG diesels just have that extra bit of tractor-like sound. Very loud at idle. And they suffer from very high vibration levels.

[Ferrer]

Also. It's not so satisying pulling up at lights and pulling away quickly with a friend doing the same in the next lane. You just look a muppet..

Don't get me wrong, I actually quite like modern diesels, hell I even like the noise. But still, I don't think you can beat the noise of a Mini Cooper S and anything with a 6-cylinder + petrol engine.

Incidentally I drive a Mini Cooper S...

[henk4]

I disagree about the sound. Sure no diesel engine has a great sound but those VAG diesels just have that extra bit of tractor-like sound. Very loud at idle. And they suffer from very high vibration levels.

This is the reason why VAG has decided to fundamentally change their technique. Over the next 5 years they will replace all pump-jet injection engines with more controllable common rail systems...

[Lagonda]

Yup, I know, I know

[jediali]

I agree if you can give me the advantages of a petrol engine

simplicity in construction, linear torque curve, lower weight engine, more affordable, better sounding, cooler (diesels=money concious=not cool), when you run out of fuel a petrol will start straight away after refilling tank(i don't THINK a diesel does this), less nitrogen oxides, particles in exhaust emission, ..)

i am neutral in this debate, just listing what i think answers the question

[henk4]

simplicity in construction, linear torque curve, lower weight engine, more affordable, better sounding, cooler (diesels=money concious=not cool), when you run out of fuel a petrol will start straight away after refilling tank(i don't THINK a diesel does this), less nitrogen oxides, particles in exhaust emission, ..)

i am neutral in this debate, just listing what i think answers the question

simplicity? No ignition, but heavier to withstand the higher compression ratio
liner torque curve? instant torque curve for a diesel...
more affordable? Depends
Better sounding? subjective
Cooler? Extremely subjective
Instant restart also for diesels (in the past the air needed to get pumped from the fuel lines). However running out of fuel may damage the modern fuel pumps so should be avoided...
particles and nitrogen are under control (filters)

[jediali]

simplicity? No ignition, but heavier to withstand the higher compression ratio
liner torque curve? instant torque curve for a diesel...
more affordable? Depends
Better sounding? subjective
Cooler? Extremely subjective
Instant restart also for diesels (in the past the air needed to get pumped from the fuel lines). However running out of fuel may damage the modern fuel pumps so should be avoided...
particles and nitrogen are under control (filters)

sorry, i should have been clearer.

simplicity? a diesel has more stressed components
liner torque curve? a more predictable torque curve
more affordable? 320d vs 320i, focus tdci vs focus 1.6, s320 diesel vs s320
Better sounding? mosr people i have heard like the sound of a petrol, only nice diesel i have heard is bmw 6
Cooler? Extremely subjective - i agree but i need some examples , i cant think right now
Instant restart also for diesels (in the past the air needed to get pumped from the fuel lines). However running out of fuel may damage the modern fuel pumps so should be avoided...
particles and nitrogen are under control (filters)- add $$

[henk4]

sorry, i should have been clearer.

simplicity? a diesel has more stressed components
liner torque curve? a more predictable torque curve
more affordable? 320d vs 320i, focus tdci vs focus 1.6, s320 diesel vs s320
Better sounding? mosr people i have heard like the sound of a petrol, only nice diesel i have heard is bmw 6
Cooler? Extremely subjective - i agree but i need some examples , i cant think right now
Instant restart also for diesels (in the past the air needed to get pumped from the fuel lines). However running out of fuel may damage the modern fuel pumps so should be avoided...
particles and nitrogen are under control (filters)- add $$

no, only the stress is harder...but as the diesel does not need to run high revs, wear and tear is less..
I have a very predictable torque curve...it is there all the time...
prices again are a function of tax regimes...
you listen to the wrong people....
Cooler? Read some EVO articles on diesel cars and you will note how the editors (in spite of themselves) are more and more convinced that a diesel has something cool...and yes, as a modern diesel is much more efficient as a petrol car, there is less surplus heat produced, so it normally takes longer to get the car heating going, so it is cooler
added dollar for filters is equivalent to added dollar for cat converters...