GT Racing In Rain

[Coventrysucks]

Race control/Clerk of the course are clearly at fault.

How?

Very rarely is a red flag deployed within an instant of any incident - and don't forget that once the decision has been made to stop the race - that needs to be communicated to the marshals - some of whom are obviously quite busy enough already.

Two cars in the barriers, marshalls over the fence trying to extricate drivers, water streaming across the track and all they are showing at the preceding point is double waved yellows.

FIA Regulations state

b) Yellow flag:

This is a signal of danger and should be shown to drivers in two ways with the following meanings:

- Single waved: Reduce your speed, do not overtake and be prepared to change direction. There is a hazard beside or partly on the track.

- Double waved: Reduce your speed, do not overtake and be prepared to change direction or stop. There is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track.

Yellow flags should normally be shown only at the marshals’ post immediately preceding the hazard.

In some cases however the Clerk of the Course may order them to be shown at more than one marshals’ post preceding an incident.

The marshals are correctly following those regulations - if the drivers are not obeying the flag rules, then how is that anyone else's fault but the drivers?

Additionally it appears that some drivers did not see or heed the yellows, adding to the carnage. They appear to still be racing over the crest prior to the waved yellows,

Again - that is the fault of the drivers, surely?

Clearly the conditions are extremely poor, why are they even attempting to race?

Drivers are not robots controlled by the flags - if there is a situation and perhaps, for whatever reason, the incorrect flag, or even no flag, is being shown - the driver should still be responsible for being able to drive and control his car in a safe manner appropriate to the conditions.

"Oh, it's pissing it down with rain, but I can't see the flags so I'll try and go flat out anyway!" - I don't think so.

People really should stop concerning themselves so much with attempting to discover who should take the blame for something.

It was raining, hard + race cars don't like water = accidents

The Clerk of the Course didn't force any of the drivers to drive too quickly, or loose control due to standing water.

The drivers should know what a realistic speed is for controlling their car in those conditions, but even then if you hit a big enough puddle, even at low speed, a set of huge tyres will just skim across the top and off you go, so would red-flagging the race even have prevented the cars from crashing?

[blackhonda]

How?

Very rarely is a red flag deployed within an instant of any incident - and don't forget that once the decision has been made to stop the race - that needs to be communicated to the marshals - some of whom are obviously quite busy enough already.



FIA Regulations state



The marshals are correctly following those regulations - if the drivers are not obeying the flag rules, then how is that anyone else's fault but the drivers?



Again - that is the fault of the drivers, surely?

Clearly the conditions are extremely poor, why are they even attempting to race?

Drivers are not robots controlled by the flags - if there is a situation and perhaps, for whatever reason, the incorrect flag, or even no flag, is being shown - the driver should still be responsible for being able to drive and control his car in a safe manner appropriate to the conditions.

"Oh, it's pissing it down with rain, but I can't see the flags so I'll try and go flat out anyway!" - I don't think so.

People really should stop concerning themselves so much with attempting to discover who should take the blame for something.

It was raining, hard + race cars don't like water = accidents

The Clerk of the Course didn't force any of the drivers to drive too quickly, or loose control due to standing water.

The drivers should know what a realistic speed is for controlling their car in those conditions, but even then if you hit a big enough puddle, even at low speed, a set of huge tyres will just skim across the top and off you go, so would red-flagging the race even have prevented the cars from crashing?

If you are making the point that drivers are responsible for their actions, then I accept that. However, the actual conduct of the race remains under the control/supervision of the Clerk of the Course, and in this case he/she had two people over the fence, in a dangerous position and the race continued unabated. Had the Red Flag been thrown after the second Saleen had crashed (or a safety car deployed) perhaps the Viper might not have nearly wiped out a marshal, and I can be reasonably sure that the rest of the cars would not have joined the wreckage, what was it? 2 TVRs, a Ferrari, a Marcos and a Porsche (nearly). Are you seriously trying to tell me that it is not the responsibility of the Race Control/Clerk of the Course? I am not looking to blame someone, simply trying to point out there are times in a race when timely intervention can perhaps reduce the possibility of something escalating into a bigger accident. The decision to show the Red Flag would be communicated to the flag points by radio, to the communications marshal stationed there, and not all of the marshals appeared to be directly involved with driver recovery etc. Additionally that instruction would have been relayed to the teams and thus the drivers by radio.
Drivers will be what they are, and sometimes it takes a firm hand to minimise the results of their actions.

[LotusLocost]

Coventry, I know this is turning into one of your arguments where you argument just because you want to argument.

When that is said:
I don't know how many races you have attended or watched in your life, maybe alot? But my general oppinion is that most racecar drivers give 100% untill the fat lady sings, even if it's suddenly 30 cm of snow on the track.

And I suspect that this class of drivers is no better than the rest of the racing world, I even think they are a bit worse.. Midle aged rich men, partly or full owners of their cars...

Certain drivers needs to be red flaged or SC on track, before they slow down or stop, yellow flags are surely not taken seriously enough on tracks around the world today.. We have on every race weekend, noumerous "incidents" in yellow flag zones.. overtaking, no sign of slowing down and hard fighting between drivers..
And I refuse to belive it is "much" better other places.. blackhonda can probably confirm that..

The marshall standing right where the first incident happens, should have called a red flagg right away when ithey crashed.
Why? It's raining havily.. and the accident have happen in an utterly dangerous position.. It should have taken him a second to think out that!

Would that prevent more crashing?? The Viper would have been hard to stop, but the rest of the cars could have slowed down enough to prevent crashing.

The red flag is almost never used, and the respect is much greater for the red flag than the yellow.

[McReis]

I don't know how many races you have attended or watched in your life, maybe alot? But my general oppinion is that most racecar drivers give 100% untill the fat lady sings, even if it's suddenly 30 cm of snow on the track.

I tottaly agree. Under yellow flag situations the driver is usually paying attention to find the obstacle but sometimes keeping his foot down to take advantage of the situation to shorten the difference between him and the driver ahead. In this case the road was almost blocked, and knowing how difficult it is to be precise with the steering on this kind of wether, it was very hard not to clip one of the Sallens.
Of course once inside the track, drivers always take all risks they can. That's why they go there in the first place.

[Coventrysucks]

Coventry, I know this is turning into one of your arguments where you argument just because you want to argument.

Sorry for causing you such distress

Look at the video again - 10 seconds after the initial Saleen impact the camera pans up the hill to see the Viper already out of control and spinning, the first Ferrari spins and comes to a halt at almost the same instant as the Viper, and the TVR crashes in only 30 seconds after the first collision.

I think that to implement full-course red flag conditions, and getting every driver slowed down to a safe speed in under 30 seconds is asking a bit much.

[LotusLocost]

Sorry for causing you such distress

Look at the video again - 10 seconds after the initial Saleen impact the camera pans up the hill to see the Viper already out of control and spinning, the first Ferrari spins and comes to a halt at almost the same instant as the Viper, and the TVR crashes in only 30 seconds after the first collision.

I think that to implement full-course red flag conditions, and getting every driver slowed down to a safe speed in under 30 seconds is asking a bit much.

No....
30 seconds can be a matter of life and death on a racetrack...
I don't bother looking inn the FIA regualtions now, but I'm pretty sure the distance between the marshals outplaced should be no longer than 200-300 meters..
When race leading marshall takes the step and calles red flag.. all red flag should be out in 5 secs max!
And when you see a red flag, you should let go of the pedal imideately...!

10 secs in total.. max

So 30 secs is a bit to much IMO...
The marshalls don't use smoke signals to eachother...

[man 430gt]

Who's he gonna sue? God? Michael Fish?

Well the track, Well come one rain like that is a Black Flag with no thought!

[man 430gt]

No one forced them to keep driving.

If the drivers feel that it is too dangerous or that they cannot keep control, they should pull off the track and stop - regardless of whether there is a red flag or not.

Shane Lynch is an arse. (Not for crashing, he's just an arse)

1) Guess so.. 2) LOL

[kingofthering]

jeez! this was either a fast crash or GT cars are built of paper and balsa wood.

[Wouter Melissen]

jeez! this was either a fast crash or GT cars are built of paper and balsa wood.

Cars breaking apart during an impact is a good thing for the soft tissue inside.

[Coventrysucks]

jeez! this was either a fast crash or GT cars are built of paper and balsa wood.

This isn't GTR2, so the cars are hardly going to just bounce off one another.

[h00t_h00t]

For those of us who do or have raced (although not at that level) it's a reminder that we really owe the flag point marshalls a lot, to stand in the pissing rain and then risk your wellbeing for no monetary reward really speaks volumes for the kind of people they are.

They get paid, or atleast the ones at Oulten park do.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Is it just me or did that TVR have no side intrusion bars in the cage across the door? Looked like the driver was hanging right out the side

[McReis]

They get paid, or atleast the ones at Oulten park do.

A great part of track marshalls do it for free or for few money.

[man 430gt]

A great part of track marshalls do it for free or for few money.

Wow, I wander what they see in it? Expect getting pretty close to the action