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Thread: if americans like torque, why not buy diesel engined cars?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer
    You say the ML320 CDI is a good car and I disagree. I answer you saying that the Mercedes-Benz C-class with the same engines is a much better proposition. And all you have to say is some stupid joke? I come here to discuss about cars, not to hear (read would probably be more appropiate) stupid things.

    That's what caused me to leave time ago, and since I returned things have gone worse instead of improving.
    Well I'm sorry... Jeez Louise!
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by culver
    The Ford vs Merc comparison isn't valid because the two products are designed to meet MUCH different goals. The Ford engine is a work truck motor. It's designed to provide low end power, be used to tow/haul stuff (ie long runs at higher power loads). It was NOT designed with a cost is no object budget. I wouldn't be surprised if it returned almost the same mileage as the Benz despite being in a very large truck.
    Yes, it hardly represents state of the art in diesels but it, like the tractor, was designed to meet a much different goal. Comparing such dissimilar motors says more about a lack of understanding of engineering design objectives than it does about the products being compared. Kind of like saying an F1 car is better than a Civic. Well that depends on the design goals.
    not too blow any brass instruments but i know more than i let on! i was perpetuating the incorrect number comparison game, where it in fact isnt that serious. ok so the merc engine is in £150k cars so it is well engineered but less durable than the Ford unit which goes to a market where high tech has less importance. Of course there are many constraints on engine design. starting with company values and expertise a company one has to consider safety (room for crumple zone), cost of design and manufacture, critical reliability, fuel economy, weight, power/torque distribution, variable technologies, lubrication, cooling, sound insulation, servicing and more. see:
    http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...ad.php?t=29726
    or
    http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...ad.php?t=29685
    for my take on all things engine design. I have found engines hard to understand on paper, only driving em makes the difference. My favourite car i owned was a civic vti because it was just fun. the engine matched the chassis in the sense that both wanted you to push harder and faster. My current LR defender is more for my work but is more practical and makes large loads and weights easier to shift around the sites i am on. so..take these things in context please.
    autozine.org

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jediali
    not too blow any brass instruments but i know more than i let on! i was perpetuating the incorrect number comparison game, where it in fact isnt that serious. ok so the merc engine is in £150k cars so it is well engineered but less durable than the Ford unit which goes to a market where high tech has less importance. Of course there are many constraints on engine design. starting with company values and expertise a company one has to consider safety (room for crumple zone), cost of design and manufacture, critical reliability, fuel economy, weight, power/torque distribution, variable technologies, lubrication, cooling, sound insulation, servicing and more. see:
    http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...ad.php?t=29726
    or
    http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...ad.php?t=29685
    for my take on all things engine design. I have found engines hard to understand on paper, only driving em makes the difference. My favourite car i owned was a civic vti because it was just fun. the engine matched the chassis in the sense that both wanted you to push harder and faster. My current LR defender is more for my work but is more practical and makes large loads and weights easier to shift around the sites i am on. so..take these things in context please.
    OK
    I haven't been following the whole thing. It's sometimes hard to tell who takes things like Hp/L seriously vs who take it in context. Keep on trucking

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by culver
    OK
    I haven't been following the whole thing. It's sometimes hard to tell who takes things like Hp/L seriously vs who take it in context. Keep on trucking
    well ts easy for boys to get distracted by numbers and (maybe pointless) technology, however it is about the context.
    autozine.org

  5. #125
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    "As a means of producing so much power with a minimum of environmental impact and a maximum of fuel efficiency, itís no surprise that BMW will be among the first to introduce 50-state clean diesel technology. After all, it often takes an independent company like ours to bring an idea like this to the public."

    -BMW NA

    This was on BMW of North America's website and from what I have heard they will begin introducing diesel models to the American market (and I guess they meet California emissions). I am starting to see a trend (maybe)...

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRR
    "As a means of producing so much power with a minimum of environmental impact and a maximum of fuel efficiency, itís no surprise that BMW will be among the first to introduce 50-state clean diesel technology. After all, it often takes an independent company like ours to bring an idea like this to the public."

    -BMW NA

    This was on BMW of North America's website and from what I have heard they will begin introducing diesel models to the American market (and I guess they meet California emissions). I am starting to see a trend (maybe)...
    Yes BMW will introduce their technology in 2008, and it will be more advanced than the Mercedes/Audi/VW Bluetec ssytem.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  7. #127
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    CARB opposition to diesels was based on particulate emissions. It is probable that with the new low sulfur fuel and urea processing that the newest diesel cars will be approved by CARB. However, in many parts of the U.S., diesel fuel is considerably more expensive than even premium gasoline so there is little economic incentive to make the change. Furthermore, if diesels are so hot why don't we see them in the Mercedes 600SL?

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninetwoeight
    CARB opposition to diesels was based on particulate emissions. It is probable that with the new low sulfur fuel and urea processing that the newest diesel cars will be approved by CARB. However, in many parts of the U.S., diesel fuel is considerably more expensive than even premium gasoline so there is little economic incentive to make the change. Furthermore, if diesels are so hot why don't we see them in the Mercedes 600SL?
    We will, once american start buying diesels. There were talks of a diesel V12 from Mercedes-Benz based on two V6 blocks and Audi have recently introduced the Q7 V12 TDI as a concept car. First it will be big saloons and SUV and I fear it won't be long till we see the first diesel engined sportscar.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer
    We will, once american start buying diesels. There were talks of a diesel V12 from Mercedes-Benz based on two V6 blocks and Audi have recently introduced the Q7 V12 TDI as a concept car. First it will be big saloons and SUV and I fear it won't be long till we see the first diesel engined sportscar.
    Peugeot...

    Concept car mind you...

    2000 Peugeot RC Concept
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waugh-terfall
    Peugeot...

    Concept car mind you...

    2000 Peugeot RC Concept
    it became much more of a concept, it was used in a French single marque racing series for diesel powered cars, running bio-diesel.....
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waugh-terfall
    Peugeot...

    Concept car mind you...

    2000 Peugeot RC Concept
    It technically isn't a road car, but yes you could say that was the first diesel powered sportscar. Maybe I should rephrase, it won't be long till we see a diesel powered supercar.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninetwoeight
    Furthermore, if diesels are so hot why don't we see them in the Mercedes 600SL?

    have a good look here....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #133
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    Because diesel is more expensive at the pump here and some diesels are bad on emissions. Hybrids are proven to be cleaner but lack oomph. Diesels are like Hybrids...but less electronic stuff and more oomph. Only Volkswagen has been doing pretty good in North America.

  14. #134
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    I will explain it all, listen, my children.

    Ok, back in the early 80s, GM thought that a good place to persue in the market was using diesel engines, due to the rising gas prices. But, because GM seemsed brainded in the 80s, they used an aluminum block, with steel inserts in the cylanders. It was basically a modified gas engine. And since the soft metal can't stand the high compression of a diesel engine, the engine would tear itself apart in a matter of time, and the cars would die prematurely. And since they made the diesel engine STANDARD on the Cadillac Seville, and plus since they installed them in the Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, a real high selling car, many of these engines sold, and that meant a large handful of problems. So, not only has GM's reputation been hurt, but the diesel engine in general is shunned by americans doe to the disaster, even though it was 20 years ago. So, americans will never want to buy diesels due to this debiacle. but, DaimlerChrysler is trying this again, with offering a diesel engine in the Jeep line. Since this is a German engineered engine, we know that is is done right, and hopefully it can heal the Delsel's fledging reputation.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prius
    I will explain it all, listen, my children.

    Ok, back in the early 80s, GM thought that a good place to persue in the market was using diesel engines, due to the rising gas prices. But, because GM seemsed brainded in the 80s, they used an aluminum block, with steel inserts in the cylanders. It was basically a modified gas engine. And since the soft metal can't stand the high compression of a diesel engine, the engine would tear itself apart in a matter of time, and the cars would die prematurely. And since they made the diesel engine STANDARD on the Cadillac Seville, and plus since they installed them in the Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, a real high selling car, many of these engines sold, and that meant a large handful of problems. So, not only has GM's reputation been hurt, but the diesel engine in general is shunned by americans doe to the disaster, even though it was 20 years ago. So, americans will never want to buy diesels due to this debiacle. but, DaimlerChrysler is trying this again, with offering a diesel engine in the Jeep line. Since this is a German engineered engine, we know that is is done right, and hopefully it can heal the Delsel's fledging reputation.
    Your brain might be composed of soft aluminium but that Oldsmobile-built GM V8 diesel was not, it was all iron

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