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Thread: Corvette Killer? Viper '08 is coming!

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    0-60 etc. doest show anything about usable power, look at a rolling 5-60mph if you want to see that. For example the EVO is able to do a 0-60 in under 5 seconds, but 5-60 takes around 7 seconds. Why? Well for one the AWD allows for a full throttle (or close to) launch, but it also has to do with lack of low end power.
    Mitsi must be doing amazing things if they can get from 0-5miles/hour in negative 2 seconds......
    Chief of Secret Police and CFO - Brotherhood of Jelly
    No Mr. Craig, I expect you to die! On the inside. Of heartbreak. You emo bitch

  2. #92
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    Yes the engine power is very weak for the size of the engine but many after market modifiers have used the full potential of these engines, and many viper owners as said previously mod their vipers so it works out.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco
    Mitsi must be doing amazing things if they can get from 0-5miles/hour in negative 2 seconds......
    Re-read what I wrote.
    Its a rolling 5-60mph test, in other words they get the car rolling at 5mph, then punch it and time how long it takes to 60. Opposed to standing at a dead stop, revving the engine near redline and dropping the clutch to get a nice AWD launch.

  4. #94
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    So no-one is allowed to roll along at 5m/h, revving to redline and dropping the clutch?

    Seems to be the fastest way there - so to not do so would be silly.
    Chief of Secret Police and CFO - Brotherhood of Jelly
    No Mr. Craig, I expect you to die! On the inside. Of heartbreak. You emo bitch

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coventrysucks
    "cardboard Speed Six"?!?

    Stones, glass houses...

    I think, sir, you have you been watching too much Top Gear.

    Or do I underestimate your wealth of knowledge on the subject of the Speed Six, a matter, to the research of which, you have dedicated many months of your life?
    God forbid I make a joke about a car you like...

    Absurd and incorrect.

    It is the manner in which a car is driven that determines the fuel consumption, and therefore pollution emmited, not the choice of vehicle.

    Advance the Viper at 70mph in 6th, the M5 in 4th:- the M5 will pollute more.
    Reverse the situation, placing the M5 in 7th and the Viper in 4th:- the Viper will pollute more.
    I love the way you twist things up...
    Saying the Viper pollutes less is obviouslyassuming both cars are not being romped on, and in the highest gear possible trying to achieve good gas milage.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingofthering
    Great. Another Slicks vs. Everyone else, and Slicks must be right because he has a freakin' LS2 and the TVR's will burst into flames at a stoplight if looked at incorrectly.
    I have an Ls2? Thats news to me...

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey
    IF that's true, LNN.com should have included it in their article. IMO it's AS significant as the engine upgrades. Also, IF that's true, it should automatically make a LOT of difference to both the handling and the pace (which would go some way to explaining a 0-100-0 time of 12 seconds.

    Do you have any links you can share with us?
    I just completed a quick search and I now realize where I heard about the weight reduction. Some of the insiders on the Viper Club of America site leaked the information regarding the loss of 200 lbs. So, Dodge has not released any official details.

    I realize internet speculation has to be taken with a grain of salt, but some of the members of VCA have great rapport with the factory and are privey to inside information. Also, when you consider SRT ditched the run-flat tires and crossover exhaust for '08 that is a pretty good headstart.

    In fact, many Viper owners make the same modifications to the current models. The Viper is notorious for baking its occupants. The intense heat can be attributed to its side pipes and more importantly the crossover which runs under the cockpit. It has been discovered cockpit temperatures can be reduced by removing the crossover. Plus, you loose anywhere from 30 to 60 lbs depending on the replacement exhaust you choose.

    Also, the run-flats are heavy. Many owners swap out their run-flat to improve handling, but they also reduce their corner weights by going to a nonrun-flat tire. Imagine if they loose 20 to 30 lbs per corner. Not only would that help to reduce the overall weight of the vehicle, but it would reduce unsprung weight and rotating mass. This will improve both excelleration and handling.

    Finally, as far as the increase in displacement is concerned that modification fits the mission of the car. Sure, SRT could have achieved 600 hp with a smaller engine. However, their goal was a broad powerband with a ton of torque.

    They are achieving these numbers with a large engine in a mild state of tune. It does not have to be revved to red line to get and stay in the meat of its powerband. I believe they would need to overhaul the entire engine (i.e. overhead cams) in order to get 600 hp out of a smaller engine. However, I believe this would come at the expense of torque.

    Also, the Viper's engine is a tuner's dream. For under $10K (USD) tuners are reaching 700+ hp by adding a Paxton supercharger on the current Viper. This modification is a mere bolt on and does not require internal changes. Other tuners such as: Heffner and Hennessey are getting over 1000 streetable horsepower out of their twin turbo conversions. Sorry for being so long.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco
    So no-one is allowed to roll along at 5m/h, revving to redline and dropping the clutch?

    Seems to be the fastest way there - so to not do so would be silly.
    It's basically a roll-on from low speed with clutch already fully engaged, and as such is a very informative & useful indicator of available low-end punch, within regular street-driving practices. I think it's known in US magazines as a 'street start' test

    Max-rev clutch drops or riding same at high revs to achieve rapid launches aka 'driving it like you stole it' in manual AWDs eventually/inevitably leads to mechanical $$ disaster, so the street start is a good reference & representation of 'normal' ownership performance, not those unrealistic magazine-war brag times
    Last edited by nota; 12-30-2006 at 04:57 AM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyco
    So no-one is allowed to roll along at 5m/h, revving to redline and dropping the clutch?

    Seems to be the fastest way there - so to not do so would be silly.
    That's what I thought, mainly because I tend to do that. The question is, am I doing damage to my car?

    I'll give you an example of what I'm doing:

    On Boxing Day I took the car up to Buxton through the country roads, rounding a corner at ~60mph I come across a tractor 500 yds down the road in my lane. The problem was there was traffic coming the other way so I couldn't just pull out and overtake.

    I slowed down and pulled up behind the tractor, far enough away to see down the road and was waiting to overtake. Then this guy in a Mondeo that had been following for a while pulled up behind me, and I knew that at the first opportunity he'd overtake me and the tractor if I was slow off the mark.

    So, before the last car passed going the other way, I put the clutch down and held my car at peak torque revs (3,800 rpm; 4,000 to be sure), whilst doing approx. 10mph. After the last car passed I lifted my left foot right off and planted my right. Will that do any harm (apart from tot he tyres!)?
    "This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coventrysucks
    The SLR is a product of McLaren Road Cars - a division of the McLaren Group - a motor racing, electronics, automotive engineering and composites specialist from Woking, in the UKoGBaNI.

    McLaren Performance Technologies - the company involved in supercharging Dodge Vipers - is a powertrain engineering specialist from Michigan in the USoA.
    Not forgetting Nicholson McLaren founded in the 70s, raced F1, did well in F3000 and powerboat engines (iirc) NOW one of THE engines to have in hill-climbing and providing LMP2 with a Cosworth based lump and servicing aircraft engines.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    WOW hp/l is............................... a grade school argument.
    Me so pwety... gugu dada! me lika BIG ENGINE!!! feel pwewrfull, like gwonup ...

    The thing is... a proper 8.4 liter engine has to give out more than 600bhp! The only thing i get from this, is that the enginers that worked on this wheren't even trying, where lazy or didn't have the budget to do the job right.
    Last edited by ruim20; 12-30-2006 at 07:51 PM.
    "Religious belief is the “path of least resistance”, says Boyer, while disbelief requires effort."

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruim20
    Me so pwety... gugu dada! me lika BIG ENGINE!!! feel pwewrfull, like gwonup ...

    The thing is... a proper 8.4 liter engine has to give out more than 600bhp! The only thing i get from this, is that the enginers that worked on this wheren't even trying, where lazy or didn't have the budget to do the job right.
    Or wanted to leave out some for power options. Well I hate to brake it to you but this engine is not near to its full potetional. If you care to see some go to viperalley.com theres a couple 17000hp vipers.
    UCP biggest mustang lover

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clivey
    That's what I thought, mainly because I tend to do that. The question is, am I doing damage to my car?

    I'll give you an example of what I'm doing:

    On Boxing Day I took the car up to Buxton through the country roads, rounding a corner at ~60mph I come across a tractor 500 yds down the road in my lane. The problem was there was traffic coming the other way so I couldn't just pull out and overtake.

    I slowed down and pulled up behind the tractor, far enough away to see down the road and was waiting to overtake. Then this guy in a Mondeo that had been following for a while pulled up behind me, and I knew that at the first opportunity he'd overtake me and the tractor if I was slow off the mark.

    So, before the last car passed going the other way, I put the clutch down and held my car at peak torque revs (3,800 rpm; 4,000 to be sure), whilst doing approx. 10mph. After the last car passed I lifted my left foot right off and planted my right. Will that do any harm (apart from tot he tyres!)?
    Probably wont do any damage, what kind of car do you have? A rolling 5mph to 60 would be more useful to me for example, because if I were to drop the clutch hard anywhere under 60mph my tires will just spin.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruim20
    Me so pwety... gugu dada! me lika BIG ENGINE!!! feel pwewrfull, like gwonup ...
    Hey lets compare two things that show nothing about the engine! How far the pistons move, and how much peak power it can make!
    Instead maybe you should open your eyes and realise that TORQUE moves the car, the cars acceleration will follow the torque curve exactly. So if your making 300ft.lbs of torque at 2000RPMs, and the same 300ft.lbs of torque at 4000RPMs, in the same gear the car will NOT accelerate any harder, although hp will be doubled.

    The thing is... a proper 8.4 liter engine has to give out more than 600bhp! The only thing i get from this, is that the enginers that worked on this wheren't even trying, where lazy or didn't have the budget to do the job right.
    The thing is, in reality where we all live, having a flat torque curve is more important than how much peak power you make.
    You make due with what you have correct? The Viper engineers wanted 600hp, they worked with what they had (the 8L V10) and got the 600hp they wanted. Acting like they couldnt get anymore power out of it is just dumb.

  15. #105
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    Just one thing for all the people who have been saying that they (SRT) could get 600hp out of a smaller engine: That's not what the Viper is about. Noone wants a Viper with a 600hp 4 banger, they want a Viper with a massive, badass piece of American iron with boatloads of torque. That is what the Viper is all about.

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