people have stayed after saying a lot worseOriginally Posted by Gaffer
Its the alfa syndrom, your going to like the one that signifies a passion for cars in your opinion.
Enthusiast
people have stayed after saying a lot worse
Its the alfa syndrom, your going to like the one that signifies a passion for cars in your opinion.
autozine.org
Furniture
But it is hideous...
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
Enthusiast
Maybe, compared to 911 Turbo, but I like it.But it is hideous...
Rookie
Sagaris by far
Enthusiast
I'm asking for a comparison between the three cars in terms of how "good" a sports car they are in comparison with one another. This doesn't just mean "which is the fastest?": a Mustang GT500 for example is faster in a straight line than a Lotus Exige, but I'd argue that the Lotus is the better sports car because of the driving experience and sheer handling ability. Therefore although the Sagaris is "faster" than the other two, someone may want to argue that one of the others is the better sports car, for one reason or another.
I'm not saying that the TVR is somehow at fault for being too cheap (far from it!I'm a HUGE TVR fan!). The problem is that you get Porsche fanboys, for example, comparing the performance stats and then announcing that despite them being in the same ballpark, the Porsche is better because "it won't break down" or "the build quality is better". And they do this without taking into account the fact that the TVR is likely to be half the price of the Porsche they're comparing it to.
Most definitely. But Porsches are still for ponces!
Agreed, although none are "bad' cars. I have to say that I don't particularly like the nose of the Z4, it seems awkward and it's not exactly "pretty", beautiful or aggressive. That though somehow spoils the whole car for me, despite the fact that I have no problem with the rest of the design and actually find some details attractive. I find the nose of the 6-series similarly ugly. Not Bangle's best influence on the design of the cars. The shape of the Porsche is well proportioned throughout, and detailing is well integrated, but somehow it still seems a little "plain", maybe because there's a sense that you've seen it all before with the Carrera...and the fact that you know that in reality it's a "poor man's" 911. The Sagaris just oozes "cool". It's as good-looking as an Aston DBS, inside and out, for a fraction of the price AND hits harder than the Hulk with a sledgehammer. The reason I mention the DBS is that I feel that it and the Sagaris share something in common: They're both in effect manufacturer "tuned" versions of "standard" cars (T350 and DB9 respectively), and add aggressive details to a conventionally beautiful bodyshell to create something you's imagine 'The Stig' would have as his daily driver. I'd like to see a pearl white Sagaris...
The interior of the Z4 though is awesome. I really like the shape and form of BMW interiors at the moment. Everything feels as though it's high quality and finished well, and the attention to detail is fantastic. It's a comfortable place to be. It may be a coincidence due to my shape but whenever I sit in a new BMW I feel as though it's the "perfect fit" for me, from the chunky steering wheel to the placement of the armrests and the short, stubby gearlever. Of course, interior design is an area the TVR also does particularly well in. The build quality may not be up to BMW standards, but the actual design hasn't been bettered by the Munich monster, IMO. I eventually aim to own a Tuscan S, and I find the interior of those even more comfortable and interesting than the Sagaris, which in itself is already something particularly special.
The Z4M is a roadster "conversion" into a hardtop, as is the Cayman, but the BMW also has a hint of "muscle car" about it. Judging by what I've read and been told, it likes to be taken by the scruff of the neck and driven forcefully, whereas the Porsche demands delicacy and clear, measured input to get the best from it. The Porsche therefore supposedly delivers a purer driving experience than the BMW and the weighting of the major controls is part of the main appeal of the car. The German cars can both be used as daily drivers, which isn't really and genuinely true of the TVR. I'd certainly have something else as an everyday car before I considered buying one, however this means that the British beast can concentrate on delivering a driving experience that really does make the other cars wither and seem limp-wristed in comparison.
You have to drive a TVR. It doesn't do anything for you. If you mess-up it's your own damn fault, but that also means that if you tame the beast and connect a series of corners just so, you feel the whole undiluted thump of reward. With the Sagaris, you get a car that offers massive traction and handling ability that ultimately when pushed converts into a wild, rear-led thrill ride. Nothing for the price comes close in terms of sheer thrills, style or performance and that makes it a worthy winner of this comparison in my book.
Exactly. It "does the job", but the TVR gives you that and so, so much more. And I'm guessing that if you wanted to go shopping, you'd have just bought a standard hatchback.
I can see the argument, and am tempted to agree...BUT...
BMW make / have made some great drivers' cars recently, and IMO it's not "just" cars like the E30 M3 that I'd like. If I had my Tuscan "for the weekends" and had enough spare cash, I'd quite like an E46 M3 as a daily driver. Although an M3 AND a Tuscan S is perhaps a dream too far, realistically.
If we had any "tests" for this, you'd have categorically passed them all with flying colours. All you need to say now is that you like Alfa-Romeos and no-one can doubt that you're a "proper" car enthusiast.So: Yes, you're allowed to stay.
"This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S
Furniture
The problem with the TVR is that it just looks a bit overdone. Furthermore it seems like it wants to kill you everytime you go even near it. Personally TVRs in general are not my cup of tea, I prefer blanace between performance and comfort.
The analogy between the DBS and the Sagaris is a brilliant one and explains perfectly why I think that both aren't imporvements over the standard versions. You see both the T350 and the DB9 are good looking cars perfectly capable of fitting their roles. What was the need of the "enhancements"? None, I'd say.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
Novice
Ferrer - the early cars most certainly wanted to kill you if you got it even slightly wrong. The Tuscan is a case in point, the pre-production model of that was a classic case. dad was the tester for it, I also drove it for about 2 mins before I stopped it and got out, refusing to go an inch further in it. the steering was just *too* quick and the people likely to buy a car like that were former Porker drivers...lawsuits ahoy...TVR then toned down the steering but its still viciously quick.
The Tamora is the best handling mainstream TVR - ask anyone from the factory and they will agree, its sweet and forgiving. The Sag is even more forgiving but the car itself is more extreame but the speeds at wich you are likely to get it wrong are a LOT higher so will in effect be more vicious.
Does this make sense..?
Claire
Furniture
I guess it does.
The thing is despite being slitghly tamed a TVR is still a TVR, loud, fast and lairy. If anything what would be the point a TVR became too civilised? We have the germans for that...
My point is though that while I love an exciting drive as much as anyone else and that I'd love to try a TVR I think that they are too extreme for my liking. It feels like it can only do fast and furious but not cruise along when the mood takes you.
Mind you that's just my perception.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
Novice
Ok...let me pass on a piece of advice my Dad gave me, its true no matter what car you are in.
Ready.....
It will only go as fast as you drive it.
If you want to pootle up and down the M-way at 70/80MPH, then they will, if you want to go a bit quicker, push the Loud Pedal harder. How hard you push depends on how fast you want to hit the horizon
A V8 TVR like the Griff or Chim has bags of low down torque and that makes for lazy driving, dont even have to downchange to overtake on normal roads.
Keep something like the Cerbera under 3K revs and it will pootle along like any car, anything above that and well....depends on how clean you want your licence to be
The Sag is a mix of the two as it has the SP6, where the V8 is running out of power the SP6 is just coming into its own, this of course is at near Licence Losing speeds - unless on a Private Road Your Officerness.
Try one...you might just be surprised. The old phrase, dont judge a book by its cover springs to mind.
Claire
Enthusiast
As I've said, a TVR isn't really to be considered as a "first" car in the same way that an Alfa or BMW could be - they're proper sports cars for "weekend use"...and your playtime depends on how long your "weekends" are!
OK: I can understand what you're saying and I'm truly glad you have your own opinion but I myself do not share the same point of view. I really, really like both the DBS and Sagaris and if I had the money, I'd own one of each. Aesthetics are something that can be argued about all day, so it'd be pointless us doing so, but I personally don't feel that either car is "overdone" or OTT.
As for the driving experience, I like to use Evo as my "source" as I find them to be truthful, unbiased, reliable and most importantly proper car enthusiasts that aren't just obsessed with 0-60 times and horsepower figures...and what they said in both cases is that the "enhanced" car is markedly better than the model on which it's based, although in the case of the DBS they tested a pre-production model and it had some suspension and steering issues that Aston have promised will be resolved before customer cars are delivered.
Yeah, I heard about that. Isn't that something that TVR continually fiddled with, with the Tuscan Mk2 having slower steering (although still not slow by any standards) than any Mk1?
I've also been told that the later Mk1 Tuscan S's (2004 preferably) are the ones to have - would you agree?
"This is hardcore." - Evo's John Barker on the TVR Tuscan S
Novice
TVR do continuous development, the cars change the more that are made. They are not like Porsche etc who make a car, then do development in the background then release a few years later the updated car.
My Chim has different features to a friends who's car is 8 months older than mine, and different again to one made after mine.
The Prototype tuscan had the quickest rack, it was toned down for the MK1, and even more for the MK2.
Anything past 2004 is considered more reliable, due to the main issues with the finger followers in the SP6 being changed. Again this is subjective, I know of a 2000 W reg tuscan with 30K miles and no rebuild, and a 2006 Tuscan with 2 rebuilds at 10k. Why...? no idea, materials used..? owner mechanical sympathy..? sheer luck..?
Thats the thing with TVR's they are all individual, I got on with mine instantly, I have driven others and not got on with them, a friend Dave, tried 22 different Griff's before he found "the one" for him.
Sagaris - Dilithium crystals for less than 50 grand
Enthusiast
mainly because larger manufacturers have larger tool changing one off costs, however further down a mass market car supply chain, manufacturers are encouraged to continually develop their products. I suppose big factory tooling revamps accur when enough improvements in design have built up to provide a cost advantageous point.
Part of my job is to meet with suppliers and report their endeavour to improve product quality. In return for our risk in their latest designs/processes (on behalf of our clients in return - ie our reputation) we offer a more competitive product (for me its not car parts - its seperators, scrubbers, pumps, tanks, valves, flowmeters for oil/gas industry)
autozine.org
Novice
Exactly - and TVR get/got feedback from their customers, whey they complained that something was wrong (the center service bonnet on the Sag for instance kept escaping at 150pmh+) so they changed the way it was held on. The designers just then had to walk out of the devlopment shed (and it was a shed) across the path to the production line and tell the guys on there, they finished the car they were working on and the next one got the new designwith a little give and take obvioously).
Thats why, in a strange way, TVR worked
Claire
Sagaris - Dilithium crystals for less than 50 grand
Novice
Lovely ones
Rookie
Z4, the last variant of such an epic motor. Doesnt have to be the fastest, just the most enjoyable
RUF CTR Yellowbird is what dreams are made of
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