Saddam's lawyer

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I agree.

As do I. I honestly don't think he has any relevance in this argument, however.




Doing nothing about terrorism allows it to flourish.

Overdoing it does just the same thing. you can have apathy which leads to hate, but also overbearing.


You call that "logic?" Trying to equate car accidents with terrorism?

He's pointing out the banality of the fear associated with the word, it's connotations and how the fear it creates has been exploited to have further reaching effects than it should. people don't live there life thinking they're going to die in a car crash everyday, but there is more chance that they will die in one than a terrorist attack. And yet if you asked people what they were more afraid of they'd say Terrorist attack.

I recently read a poll which listed only 34% of people believe Dick Cheney is doing a good job as president. but over 50% of those same people believe there was a link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq. Obviously those 16% or so are clueless to what he's doing, Him and the Administration. They're fantastic at their job, but what they choose to do with their abilities frightens me - they play on the worst political trick - Fear - to get what they want. people are scared of a threat which is very, very small.

its just not in perspective. and not in proportion.

[Quiggs]

only 34% of people believe Dick Cheney is doing a good job as president.

I knew it all along!

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Well.....crap. Or perhaps I'm being ironic

*Dick Cheney Is doing a good job at being Vice President.

[drakkie]

Doing nothing about terrorism allows it to flourish

but atleast you dont start new hatred by young people like me. As you might know, they are usually quite passionate about things. The horrific actions by the Americans globally,just feed their hatred... Doing nothing,slowly makes them develop instead of letting it flourish.

And the "war on terrorism" is not a war folks ! It is just a propaganda thing. The government created fear, fooled the politicians too. Just a few thousand deaths in Iraq are the result.

And no, i wouldnt want to give up my privacy, for any "war". If I would be living in the USA i would have emigrated elsewhere when able.

[henk4]

The U.S. didn't "lose" in Vietnam... we had won every battle. The people in Vietnam didn't want to help free their country from Communism; that was the main problem.

I think we are seeing the same problem in Iraq. The people don't want to be helped to free themselves from whatever it is they are having there......

BTW, I will already nominate the above for the most stupid post of 2007 on this forum. I can hardly imagine somebody is going to beat this one...

[Fleet 500]

He's pointing out the banality of the fear associated with the word, it's connotations and how the fear it creates has been exploited to have further reaching effects than it should. people don't live there life thinking they're going to die in a car crash everyday, but there is more chance that they will die in one than a terrorist attack. And yet if you asked people what they were more afraid of they'd say Terrorist attack.

Overdoing fighting terrorism? Would you prefer we just sit back and not do anything about it?

It's still irrelevant trying to compare auto accidents with terrorist acts. One terrorist act usually kills a lot more people than one auto accident. And an idividual can usually prevent an auto accident by practicing defensive driving. An individual can't effectively prevent a terrorist attack.

[nota]

Imagine the absolute gall of those ungrateful Vietnamese in refusing America's kind attempts to assist, as both they and nearby countries got carpet-bombed & poisoned almost back to the stone age courtesy of USA largesse

[henk4]

Overdoing fighting terrorism? Would you prefer we just sit back and not do anything about it?

It's still irrelevant trying to compare auto accidents with terrorist acts. One terrorist act usually kills a lot more people than one auto accident. And an idividual can usually prevent an auto accident by practicing defensive driving. An individual can't effectively prevent a terrorist attack.

I think you should sit down and start thinking what "terrorism" actually is. How does it come about? It is a self generating/self propelled machinery? It is action or reaction? You will probably call every act aimed at undermining the global position of the USA "terrorism" but did you ever try to put yourself in the position of others?

Maybe you have heard of an SF writer named Harry Harrison. About 40 ago he wrote a book called "death planet", which is about a planet on which an "earth" expedition has just set foot and to create a base they destroy/remove some local growth to make sufficient room. What happens is that the ecology of the planet allows the plants and animal to mutate in such a fast way that they start fighting back, and everytime the people think they killed them off sufficiently nature came back with new tricks. In the end they have to abandon the planet.... think about that and see the analogy with terrorism. I am sure the leader of that expedition would have called those plants and animals terrorists

Edit: The title of the book is "Deathworld" and it was originally published in 1960 by Bantam Books.

[Fleet 500]

but atleast you dont start new hatred by young people like me. As you might know, they are usually quite passionate about things. The horrific actions by the Americans globally,just feed their hatred... Doing nothing,slowly makes them develop instead of letting it flourish.

Hatred is always going to be around. Interesting you make a claim of "horrific" actions by the Americans globally, yet ignore the actions of terrorists worldwide which are the real horrific acts.

And the "war on terrorism" is not a war folks ! It is just a propaganda thing. The government created fear, fooled the politicians too. Just a few thousand deaths in Iraq are the result.

Are you for real? Was there a terrorist attack in the U.S. on 9/11 or not? The government didn't "create" fear, the terrorists did. A "propaganda" thing? I think you are posting on this subject just to entertain me!

And no, i wouldnt want to give up my privacy, for any "war". If I would be living in the USA i would have emigrated elsewhere when able.

This is just as much a "war" as it was after Pearl Harbor was attacked. And I haven't given up and of my privacy that I know of. Neither has anyone I know. You are like many in the U.S. who won't understand until the next terrorist attack happens in the U.S. (which hopefully won't). Of course, then all they will say is that Bush didn't do enough and he should have done something about the terrorists hiding in this country.

[Fleet 500]

Imagine the absolute gall of those ungrateful Vietnamese in refusing America's kind attempts to assist, as both they and nearby countries got carpet-bombed & poisoned almost back to the stone age courtesy of USA largesse

Don't forget the 1 million+ Vietnamese who were slaughtered after the U.S. left. They should have cooperated with the U.S.- they would have been much better off.

[clutch-monkey]

Maybe you have heard of an SF writer named Harry Harrison. About 40 ago he wrote a book called "death planet"

off topic: that is a great book. and so are his other books.

[Fleet 500]

I think you should sit down and start thinking what "terrorism" actually is. How does it come about? It is a self generating/self propelled machinery? It is action or reaction? You will probably call every act aimed at undermining the global position of the USA "terrorism" but did you ever try to put yourself in the position of others?

Maybe you have heard of an SF writer named Harry Harrison. About 40 ago he wrote a book called "death planet", which is about a planet on which an "earth" expedition has just set foot and to create a base they destroy/remove some local growth to make sufficient room. What happens is that the ecology of the planet allows the plants and animal to mutate in such a fast way that they start fighting back, and everytime the people think they killed them off sufficiently nature came back with new tricks. In the end they have to abandon the planet.... think about that and see the analogy with terrorism. I am sure the leader of that expedition would have called those plants and animals terrorists

I already know what terrorism is... the unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence to intimidate or coerce societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons... violence committed or threatened to intimidate or coerce, as for military or political purposes.

[henk4]

off topic: that is a great book. and so are his other books.

I think this book is really ON topic as the analogy is striking.

[henk4]

I already know what terrorism is... the unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence to intimidate or coerce societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons... violence committed or threatened to intimidate or coerce, as for military or political purposes.

sounds very much like the definition of the invasion of Iraq.....

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Overdoing fighting terrorism? Would you prefer we just sit back and not do anything about it?

I'm saying that instead of the Apathetic attitude of the Previous administration, and the Paranoid attitude of this one, perhaps theres another way. Not everyone wishes to be moulded as the US wishes them to be.

It's still irrelevant trying to compare auto accidents with terrorist acts. One terrorist act usually kills a lot more people than one auto accident. And an idividual can usually prevent an auto accident by practicing defensive driving. An individual can't effectively prevent a terrorist attack.

So you're saying an Individual can't prevent a Terrorist attack? could that Individual be, say, in the white house at the big chair?

Again you've managed to miss the point - this is about scale, scope and relevance. the Auto Accident issue is used because we're talking the scale of the incident - 3,000 people 5 years ago does not justify hardship for tens of millions, or the death of more soldiers than casualties.

It's used because of the scope - there is no big scare tactic, no "We've had an unconfirmed report of a madman driving down 5th avenue who could possibly endanger lives", nothing out of the ordinary. yet people still die, in larger numbers than Terrorist attacks. what is the government doing about that? seatbelts are still optional in many US states - and as much as i've heard the argument about how they cost more lives than they save the facts remain that when NCAP and the NTHSA crash test vehicles, the majority of dummies they deem to have survived the impact were wearing them. much like people who do. since Seatbelts have been introduced into Australia Coaches as a legal requirement, deaths from coach accidents have dramaticaly reduced.

The US is not an innocent party in these things, and to compare the actions of the US against barbaric terrorists somehow lowers people's expectations and thoughts of the US. Their actions shouldn't even be in the same catagory, let alone comparable, to these people.

Many of those 1Million + vietnamese DID cooperate with the Americans while they were there - why do you think they were slaughtered? much the same as Kurds in Iraq - the US told them to rise up, they did, and were brutally cut back because there was no back up.

Not a single person on this forum wishes another bomb was dropped, exploded or another innocent life to be extinguished. But playing on the fear that it might happen today, tomorrow, soon....and that everyone around you could do it is just not compatible with living in the home of the free. I'm hugely fortunate to live in my wide brown land but I'm genuinely fearful for my liberty - we're following the US's lead, to our own detriment.