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Thread: Step 1: Find Miata.

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    I'm not sure where you're going with this. Do you mean to say that someone who has the know-how to put together an LS6 powered Miata doesn't know how to install big brakes, a decent suspension, and sufficient chassis improvements? Or that the already taut chassis of a dedicated sports car won't handle the extra power (90lbs is less than the weight of a passenger, so we'll ignore that for simplicity's sake)?

    Having no further information about the car, this is a pointless line of questioning.
    Welcome to the discussion. What you are asking is exactly what "we", the European fanboys hava been trying to find out: What else was needed to turn the LS powered Miata into a decent handling car. Somewhere it has been mentioned that it took the owner 2 years to make it handle properly. It is the same question as to what was necessary to turn the fine handling AC Bristol into a Cobra and the mediocre Sunbeam Alpine into a Tiger. It has nothing to with religion regarding engine swops, but it may have to do with a difference in approach regarding the priority of acceleration over handling and vice versa.

    And thank for giving us a deeper insight of what according to you is the reputation of UCP. I hope you also want to distinghuish between the forums and the main site:
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer
    Small wheelbase (alone) will make it twitchy but not necessarily uncontrollable, will it? (I'm thinking Lancia Stratos here)
    I've driven a Stratos replica.
    It gets "uncontrollabel" when you try to push on. and IT has hte engine in the right place
    I've been in an RS200 and again it takes a VERY high level of driver to move these vehicles at speed.
    THe "twitchiness" requires the driver to either go slower or be a "god"
    SO why I say uncontrollable.
    AND when you get to RWD with huge torque and short wheelbase, you get to the point where the throttle lifts the front and reduces sgrip and steering input -- why are top fuel dragsters so long.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    It was a 2nd gen Miata, dont remember the exact year, probably a '99 or '00.
    Then you are referring to it's price when new, because now it's worth about $15000 in Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer
    Small wheelbase (alone) will make it twitchy but not necessarily uncontrollable, will it? (I'm thinking Lancia Stratos here)
    Because it had a big engine, the Stratos could only work being a mid-engined car. And yet, it had much less BHP than this Miata, a way stronger chassis, huge back wheels and, yes, drivers say it's very hard to drive. Though sideways is the way to go fast with it, the distance between a nice controled slide and a go into the scenery is milimetrical.
    Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by McReis
    And yet, it had much less BHP than this Miata...
    Turbocharged Group 5 Stratos...?

    But I'll take MetA's word for it. Short wheelbase + a lot of power = you're going into a tree...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer
    Turbocharged Group 5 Stratos...?
    You are proving my point there: how much longer body and aerodinamical support was needed to make it work?
    Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.

  6. #306
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    Well, I'm a newby in this forum, however I'm well worn in dozens of others.

    A friend in here asked me over to hopefully lend some reality to the general V8Miata discussion and especially the LSX V8 Miata discussions.

    Brief background; I'm a retired guy that's campaigned stock and highly modified Miatas for years in the western US in SCCA, NASA and ProAutosports. Occassional Auto-X but mostly roadracing and track days including Laguna seca. I have two other local friends with V8 Miatas theirs are Ford 5.0 based. One's a modified Cobra with AFR heads and the other is a stroker 377 with around 415 RWHP.

    I read this Thread completely and posts seem to be ranging from intelligent questions to those originating from a different oriface.

    Anyway, you can look at my photo gallery where there are some V8 Miata pictures and our other projects.

    http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d63/LS2V8Miata/?sc=1

    One question that I get all the time is about the Miata's balance and handling being potentially screwed up by V8 engine weight and the other modifications effects. I actually reduced a lot of the OEM Miata's weight by getting rid of leather seats and speakers, woofers, 200 watt stereo, A/C cruise control, airbags, ABS alot of garbage that in my opinion has no business in a real performance car. All modifications have been made to stay within the 2500 Lb target weight and 4 corner digital scales for accuracy.


    Thanks
    Last edited by LS2 V8 Miata; 02-07-2007 at 05:53 PM.
    94' Miata 2006 Corvette LS2, Ron Davis, T-56 six speed, Ford 8.8 IRS 3:73 posi, Ground control AGXs MOMO seats ground up build

  7. #307
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    LS2, good to have you here.

    I'm thinking a few basic questions are, did you do before/after weights both as a total and a end-end balance?

    How much work did you do modifying the suspension components and set up?

    How much did it change the feel of the car?
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  8. #308
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    I had a thought; will fitting an LSx into any given car in fact better it?
    "Racing improves the breed" ~Sochiro Honda

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2 V8 Miata
    I read this Thread completely and posts seem to be ranging from intelligent questions to those originating from a different oriface.
    I usually love to welcome newcomers. But they have to do their part of the politness. That was not, by any means, a clever start.

    Anyway, all I had to say about this subject has been said over and over before, so I don't pretend to ressurect the discussion.
    Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.

  10. #310
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    Yeah, I read "your" post's example of politeness McReis; " a very stupid and typically american idea". Thanks for the warm welcome, but I'm not here seeking your approval.

    Cyco, the OEM car weighed 2385 Lbs. as a 1994 Laguna blue "C" package Miata. The target goal weight is 2500 Lbs, a difference of 115 Lbs evenly distributed between both ends of the car.

    PerfAdv. I wish I was the originator of the LSX Miata idea but I'm not. There are over 200 V8 MIatas around the US alone, most are Ford 5.0 V8 based as there is a "kit" manufacturer. There are others in UK, Canada and Europe with Rover V8 Miatas.
    V8s started going into Miatas way back when Miatas first started production in 1990. I have 6 friends I communicate with regularly around the US with LSX V8 Miatas but they are all "one-off" custom builds like mine.

    There are two of my friends locally with Ford V8 Miatas and we all are in NASA and Pro Autosports sanctioning bodies running them on roadracing courses (5 here in Arizona alone). The modified Ford V8 Miatas regularly out perform Porsches, BMWs, Ferraris, Cobras and Vipers. I have a lot of pictures (Viper chases Jim's V8 Miata, Bill, Jim & Ernie's V8 Miatas at St. Johns and a GT-1 vette & me)

    Anyway I hope that answers some of your questions

    By the way a couple of guys in California have already done the S2000 engine / trans in their Miatas. No surprise, they now have Miatas that run exactly like S2000 Hondas.

    Thanks for the welcome everybody!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by LS2 V8 Miata; 02-08-2007 at 08:30 AM.
    94' Miata 2006 Corvette LS2, Ron Davis, T-56 six speed, Ford 8.8 IRS 3:73 posi, Ground control AGXs MOMO seats ground up build

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2 V8 Miata
    By the way a couple of guys in California have already done the S2000 engine / trans in their Miatas. No surprise, they now have Miatas that run exactly like S2000 Hondas.
    I'm struggling to comprehend why anyone would do that.
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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2 V8 Miata
    Yeah, I read "your" post's example of politeness McReis; " a very stupid and typically american idea". Thanks for the warm welcome, but I'm not here seeking your approval.
    That post was not directly to anyone. The same can't be said from your's.
    Other members' approval of our behaviour is necessary to spend time in this forums. Keep that in mind.
    Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.

  13. #313
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    If I revised my post to read; "a typically stupid, Portueguese idea, from an advocate of Fiats and stock Miatas" stated,

    you'd really feel better in that I parsed by being slightly general to avoid any accountability?

    OK, if you say so counselor.

    Everybody clearly understood your meanings using the words "stupid" and "american" whom you were addressing
    94' Miata 2006 Corvette LS2, Ron Davis, T-56 six speed, Ford 8.8 IRS 3:73 posi, Ground control AGXs MOMO seats ground up build

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2 V8 Miata
    If I revised my post to read; "a typically stupid, Portueguese idea, from an advocate of Fiats and stock Miatas" stated,

    you'd really feel better in that I parsed by being slightly general to avoid any accountability?

    OK, if you say so counselor.

    Everybody clearly understood your meanings using the words "stupid" and "american" whom you were addressing
    OK let's cut the crap.

    So basically the weight of the standard miata was kept more or less constant by removing all sorts of unnecessary luxury items. I am sure this is what you do when you consider serious track time for such a car. (How much weight could be shaved off without changing the engine?) Was it you who stated that it took you about two years to get the car properly set-up? What tweaks were required for the suspension and the brakes? Does the chassis/body need any further strengthening in order not to be torn apart by a double amount of torque? Is the wheelbase sufficient for the power? (check for instance the TVR Griffith, which became a pig to handle)

    Do you consider this a worthwhile conversion if you purely aim at increasing acceleration, again a much higher priority for americans than for europeans?

    (sorry but I missed about two weeks of this thread due to holidays...)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2 V8 Miata
    Everybody clearly understood your meanings using the words "stupid" and "american" whom you were addressing
    Well not "everybody"..... the comma in your example and the word "and" in the original have different connotations to the meaning in the English language. Further the original is still open to 2 interpretations. I took the one where it was a stupid idea (full stop) and that it was a typically American desire to put stonking powerful V8s into cars. For you and those who combined those two statements in an inference must take on board that that interpretation is your and not necessarily that of the original author.

    Now getting back to your car .... you listed a final weight some 115 pounds heavier than the stock Miata and you had indicated you had lightened the car. So how much weight had you shaved given that part of the original nonsense in this thread was caused by the continuous claims that an LS engine == lower weight than every other engine on the planet
    Interested to know what you did to the car
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

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