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Thread: Step 1: Find Miata.

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by VtecMini
    But it completely defeats the object of the car.
    The object of the car is to be an underpowered hairdressers car?
    Its supposed to be a fun, sporting roadster, right? How does adding some balls change that?
    Let's say we go ahead with the engine conversion. Great stuff. So now I have an MX5 with 300 and whatever bhp and god only know how much torque.

    Only thing is, these skinny tyres just can't put any of it down in the dry, let alone the wet. That's okay though. We'll get some nice wide tyres for the back. That'll increase the unsprung weight, but I guess that's life. So now we have an MX5 that can put all that power down. Excellent.
    You do know that there are some really lightweight wheels out there, right? The stockers certainly arnt the end-all-be-all wheels...
    Only thing now is, she's fast and she goes round corners, but since it was never built to travel at the speeds that it can now, the piddly brakes are now next to useless, which is just damn dangerous. No need to panic, we'll get some nice big discs and some hefty stoppers. Oh, hang on, we've just increased the unsprung weight even further...
    Brakes are usually the first thing upgraded for autox-ers, right? So there is no way you can find brakes that are lighter than stock?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R
    Hehe, it is RWD.

    I think VTECMini really hit it on the head for me too. Why bother when you can get a Mustang which does pretty much the same thing for less?
    The Mustang doesnt do this, and it probably wouldnt be any cheaper(a new GT)...

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiggs
    Because I don't have a mullet. Because Miatas have a stigma of being a girly car. Because no one would see it coming. Because I like ideas that are different and original.
    Alright, fine. You like your cars your way, I like them my way. I definitely know I don't like cars your way now.

    Same for Slicks as well.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by VtecMini
    But it completely defeats the object of the car.

    Let's say we go ahead with the engine conversion. Great stuff. So now I have an MX5 with 300 and whatever bhp and god only know how much torque.

    Only thing is, these skinny tyres just can't put any of it down in the dry, let alone the wet. That's okay though. We'll get some nice wide tyres for the back. That'll increase the unsprung weight, but I guess that's life. So now we have an MX5 that can put all that power down. Excellent.

    Only thing is, the bloody thing understeers like a pig now, cos of the difference in the tyres. Not to worry, we'll put bigger tyres on the front, too. Now she'll go like a champion. The unsprung weight's gone up again, but that's life.

    Only thing now is, she's fast and she goes round corners, but since it was never built to travel at the speeds that it can now, the piddly brakes are now next to useless, which is just damn dangerous. No need to panic, we'll get some nice big discs and some hefty stoppers. Oh, hang on, we've just increased the unsprung weight even further...

    Before you know it, you have something that no longer represents what the MX5 is about. You've just ended up with a smaller corvette.
    So let's you go ahead with the enige conversion. Now you have a Miata with 3xx hp. Take it out and drive it. Sure the fun of a light balanced sportscar is in the dynamics and finding the perfect turn in. With the bigger engine you just have more to worry about. Instead of mashing the pedal to the floor and knowing the tires can handles it, you have to worry about how much the car can handle and modulate the throttle accordingly. About brakes... well if you decide to do 180 down a long straight of course you need bigger brakes, but who says you need to stand on the gas the whole way? The more powerful engine has little or no effect on dynamics and handling, it just means that the car is faster and has more power available at need. What's the problem with that? Unless you treat the throttle like an on/off switch I don't know why you wouldn't want more power available.

  5. #50
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    I think it's a fun idea. why bash it? You don't have to do it, but it's interesting and entertaining. More power to people who do strange things to cars.
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  6. #51
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    It won't corner faster. The 90 extra pounds is going to have an effect, no matter where you put it; and yes, not being able to put all the power down is a big downside. I can think of nothing that would ruin a Miata faster than 400hp under pedal. I hate this idea that if a car isn't grossly overpowered, it's somehow underpowered. If all you're doing while driving the thing is trying to keep it contained, if it's rendered completely in-exploitable by the extreme nature of its concept; then I see no reason for it to exist. Musclecars and supercars are one thing; they're engineered from the start for big numbers and big thrills; but a Miata needs so much chassis tuning to keep up with this monster motor (Which incidentally, I have nothing against in and of itself.). Still, I guess you could look at it as a handling upgrade for your Vette!

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    The object of the car is to be an underpowered hairdressers car?
    Its supposed to be a fun, sporting roadster, right? How does adding some balls change that?

    Sometimes, people just don't wanna look stupid.



    This is more like it..

    Last edited by Ingolstadt; 01-12-2007 at 07:20 AM.
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  8. #53
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    Natalie Portman has balls? This is an interesting development...
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  9. #54
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    Vtec Mini cleverly summed it all, but i have to answer to some things that were said.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingofthering
    Idiot.
    Please don't lower the level of the conversation. Noone is an idiot here. Just persons with different points of view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiggs
    Did you miss the part where the swap actually balances the car even more than stock, putting the weight closer to the center of the car and the ground?
    The weight is always there though. And so is the excessive power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiggs
    The only "downside" to the swap would be having to adapt to not being able to put all the power down as early coming out. But if you're already going through the corner faster, and you have 3x the power, is that really a factor anymore?
    The thing is. You aren't necessarily going through the corner faster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    The object of the car is to be an underpowered hairdressers car?
    Those childish remarks don't help your cause. That's the kind of thing a guy who doesn't know a thing about cars would say. You spend too much time in this website not to know more than that.
    Read about all the Lotus, Abarths and other tiny, underpowered but hugely fast cars and you will conclude that 90% of the times they are most sucessfull than the brute force racers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    You do know that there are some really lightweight wheels out there, right? The stockers certainly arnt the end-all-be-all wheels...
    The simple difference in the weight of the tires would be enough to make a difference. And yes, the stock wheels of most Miatas are extremely light. Specially the 14'' Minilite look-a-likes that are standard on the NA model (the one being destroyed in the picture). They are considered very advanced.
    But I guess 14'' never look masculine enough, right?
    Last edited by McReis; 01-12-2007 at 05:22 AM.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by McReis
    Read about all the Lotus, Abarths and other tiny, underpowered but hugely fast cars and you will conclude that 90% of the times they are most sucessfull than the brute force racers.
    Yep- Minis were a common occurrence back in the British Touring Car Championship days of the '60s- and frequently managed to pin down Jaguar Mk. II's and the overpowered, underbraked muscle cars that invaded the scene later on. Wacky Races indeed

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by IWantAnAudiRS6
    Yep- Minis were a common occurrence back in the British Touring Car Championship days of the '60s- and frequently managed to pin down Jaguar Mk. II's and the overpowered, underbraked muscle cars that invaded the scene later on. Wacky Races indeed
    Just don't rule out big cars though, Jaguar Mk II 3.8, Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL and Lancia Flaminia managed to take the first places in many races. And from the mid sixties mid-sized cars, like the Lotus Cortina and (mainly) the Alfa Romeo Giulia GTA, reigned supreme.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer
    Just don't rule out big cars though, Jaguar Mk II 3.8, Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL and Lancia Flaminia managed to take the first places in many races. And from the mid sixties mid-sized cars, like the Lotus Cortina and (mainly) the Alfa Romeo Giulia GTA, reigned supreme.
    It was mainly in the wet races that the smaller cars overcame the big beasts. I'd deem the Lotus Cortina as a light, not amazingly powerful car, though...

  13. #58
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    Just to prove my point that more power doesn't equal to going faster , here here is a fight between a 5.7 Camaro and a 1.6 Escort. The track has no reasonable overtaking points but it's easy to see how faster the Escort corners.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY5zdnGvT0c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDAK4...elated&search=
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  14. #59
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    Great video Hugo, for me it demonstrates two different styles of racing, the Escort being very well balanced and losing little speed through the corners, where the Camaro is struggling to maintain a smooth line, yet clearly getting left behind on the straights where the Camaro can flex its brute power.

    I would like to see these 2 cars switch positions to see if the Camaro could pass on the straights or if the Escort would put enough road between them through the turns. I think a more open, faster track may benefit the Camaro.

    As far as the Miata .... I'm all for lots of power, and if it still handles reasonably well then I like it ... despite the fact I'm not keen on the Miata styling (too feminine).

  15. #60
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    Fair enough. Great to have you back BTW.
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOne
    I'm not keen on the Miata styling (too feminine).
    I never understand this argument. It sure is feminine. But I like women, and you can't get anything more feminine than them. So yes, I like my cars feminine.
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