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Thread: Step 1: Find Miata.

  1. #286
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    i'm saying it's no longer an Mx5, and some people don't like that.
    Andreas Preuninger, Manager of Porsche High Performance Cars: "Grandmas can use paddles. They aren't challenging."

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    and filled into a role of SC.net's bitchy little sister.
    We can only guess where you've come from.
    PPC - Put a V8 in it!

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    Alright, I read the whole thread - got to page two before it was for sheer entertainment purposes only.

    My findings -
    - Miatas should not be modified for more power as it would disrupt the universal time-space continuum. They are beings of perfect balance and have zero flaws. Some reformed Hindus actually worship Miatas instead of cows.
    No, because some power worshippers want to take those pure entities that some reformed Hindus worship and convert them into ultra-powerful supercar slaying dragons.
    - 405bhp is too much for any mere mortal to handle. And no matter how the car is put together, everyone who posts in this thread has extensive knowledge about how the hybrid Miata handles and how the power is delivered. But we can all make broad generalizations and assumptions.
    405 hp can be too much and sometimes 805 hp isn't enough, it's the application that determines the appropriate amount of power. In a sports car that's primarily designed for exploiting handling limits, a very powerful engine can be an impediment, as putting/getting the power down becomes a challenge in itself. Having enough power to spin your wheels at will at any given time doesn't offer real performance gains, only real show-boating benefits.

    - 90lbs is automatically perceptible in how well the car handles to everyone in this thread, because we are all FIA-licensed drivers with 10+ years of experience in the racing world. And especially because we're all engineers with degrees in chassis dynamics.
    90 lbs isn't going to really affect the car too much at all, in many racing series greater trophy weights regularly fail slow the victorious.

    - Doing a motor swap makes you an ignorant 'merikun. Because all they do is drag race. That's due to the fact the country is geographically more spread out.
    Personally, motor swaps piss me off and it doesn't have anything to do with swaps being American, it isn't an American phenomenon. Motor swaps of a drastic nature (V8s into cars that come with fours) do infact show some level of ignorance, probably many levels of ignorance.

    You gentlemen are all shooting from the hip, in essence. Not a damn one of you has any idea how this thing drives, nor do you know the additional modifications to the car. But hey, I'd better get back to lurking since it really isn't my place to troll. I don't want to offend anyone, but after reading this thing, I can't help but stand back and wonder how little intellect actually is
    harnessed by the members here. IWantAnAudiRS6 - the ignorance is displayed by virtually everyone in this thread, minus a select few, regardless of which side of the "argument" you're on (still unsure about what you folks are arguing about, and I doubt most of you don't know either.)
    It's no mystery how a 400 hp Miata would handle... badly. Unless, you always have the tranny in a couple of gears higher than the speed dictates just to control the torque, then you're only trying to cover the chassis' inability to handle the power. Unlike NFS, you can't defy physics by ever bigger boxes of speed parts.

    You're not being a troll but the problem is how you came into an on-going forum discussion and stated how we're being ignorant. No one including me hates torque or lots of power, but in replying to someone who always seems to offer torque as the solution, the answer is sometimes equally one-sided and seamingly ignorant.

    UCP has really lost its reputation among the online automotive community as a source for information and media (though there still is a fantastic resource for it here,) and filled into a role of SC.net's bitchy little sister. But I suppose that comes with an influx of new members. I reckon this post will probably get me banned anyway, but I figured I'd be constructive while I'm here.
    OK, if you say so, Mister Constructive.
    Last edited by PerfAdv; 01-29-2007 at 11:02 PM.
    "Racing improves the breed" ~Sochiro Honda

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    Alright, I read the whole thread - got to page two before it was for sheer entertainment purposes only.

    You gentlemen are all shooting from the hip, in essence. Not a damn one of you has any idea how this thing drives, nor do you know the additional modifications to the car. But hey, I'd better get back to lurking since it really isn't my place to troll. I don't want to offend anyone, but after reading this thing, I can't help but stand back and wonder how little intellect actually is harnessed by the members here. IWantAnAudiRS6 - the ignorance is displayed by virtually everyone in this thread, minus a select few, regardless of which side of the "argument" you're on (still unsure about what you folks are arguing about, and I doubt most of you don't know either.)
    Erm...

    - One of our moderators, a highly respected and useful member of the community, drives a Miata, or MX-5, depending on your country of origin. So he knows how it drives. I have had a small go in a friend's, and it was an interesting drive. Very communicative, not amazingly fast, and totally endearing.

    - On the subject of the modified one, however... one can assume that it has had extensive preparation to deal with its new-found power. Only an utter moron would leave the rest of the car stock. And this is the point that some of us had tried to make to the others prior to your most unwelcome interjection.

    - You need to learn to differentiate between ignorance and opinion. My opinion was that it was a pointless, but slightly cool swap- but in the essence changed the original values of the car. Does this make me ignorant?

    Maybe you should take some time to get to know us before passing judgement that quickly. Otherwise, you may as well not bother posting.

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    - Miatas should not be modified for more power as it would disrupt the universal time-space continuum. They are beings of perfect balance and have zero flaws. Some reformed Hindus actually worship Miatas instead of cows. .
    MX-5s are far from flawless cars. And if there is a flaw that I can point to a MKI Miata is the lack of body stifness (by today's standards, that is). Which leads me to conclude that it's main drawback is the one that makes it less suitable to swallow a V8 and it's power.
    The Miata is only near perfection for what it is: an echonomical sports car. Of course Slicks and his friend laughed about it's acceleration. Because they failed to understand or to try out what the car has in it's favour which, more than just balance, is it's lightness and extremely sharp front end. Those are qualities that can't be there when you drop a V8 in the front. You can keep the weight distribution, but you can't avoid the weight increase. Then, having a very short wheelbase, it's near impossible to keep the sharp turn and that feel that you can really use the power available.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    - 405bhp is too much for any mere mortal to handle. And no matter how the car is put together, everyone who posts in this thread has extensive knowledge about how the hybrid Miata handles and how the power is delivered. But we can all make broad generalizations and assumptions..
    Even 1001bhp seem to be a very tractable amount of power this days, with the huge development of sportscars. What you can't do is to put a saddle on your holy cow and hope it will win horse races.
    It takes a lot of engineering since the white sheet to make a car handle 400bhp. It's not a small firm that starts with an old bodyshell that will make a Ferrari out of a budget japanese sportscar. If they could make that kind of miracles, Ferrari and other performance car makers would close their doors sooner or later.
    This was the point of the discussion where it went from the honest defense of own opinions to the absolute lunacy, before. If someone prefers to have a pocket rocket sacrificing the qualities that made the Miata famous, ok. We have to accept that. But defending the LS6 Miata to the point of claiming that it is as correct from an engineering point of view as a car that took 5 years for Mazda to put on the road, is a bit too optimistic and a biased opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    - 90lbs is automatically perceptible in how well the car handles to everyone in this thread, because we are all FIA-licensed drivers with 10+ years of experience in the racing world. And especially because we're all engineers with degrees in chassis dynamics..
    We have concluded that's it's 90lbs in the whole of the car, after some stripping out. The engine is still a lot more heavier than the original 4 pot, and that does affect the behaviour. No need to be an engineer.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    You gentlemen are all shooting from the hip, in essence. Not a damn one of you has any idea how this thing drives, nor do you know the additional modifications to the car. But hey, I'd better get back to lurking since it really isn't my place to troll. .
    I don't see any difference between your behaviour and other member's, except that you act like you are moraly above others.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    I don't want to offend anyone, but after reading this thing, I can't help but stand back and wonder how little intellect actually is harnessed by the members here. IWantAnAudiRS6 - the ignorance is displayed by virtually everyone in this thread, .
    It's a bit hard not to offend while saying everyone here is ignorant. That's the point in which your attitude is going a bit over the edge for a newcomer who doesn't actually know the members.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    UCP has really lost its reputation among the online automotive community as a source for information and media (though there still is a fantastic resource for it here,) and filled into a role of SC.net's bitchy little sister..
    You have 9 posts so far. How can you fairly judge UCP reputation? Do you base that prejudice on what you read on other forums like SC.net? That it's understandable. But instead of that, try to come here with the openminded spirit of someone who is humble and clever enough to read and learn, and you might end up with another picture of this community.
    On SC.net, such a warm and controversial discussion like the one we're having on this thread, would have probably gone to flames at 3rd page and everyone would be insulting each other trough 10 more pages without interruption. So, yes, in that sense we are SC.net's little sister.
    But if you are looking for knowledge, perfect pictures, CORRECT DATA and order and politness in the forums, then UCP is one of the few huge web communities where you can find that.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightdorifto
    But I suppose that comes with an influx of new members. I reckon this post will probably get me banned anyway, but I figured I'd be constructive while I'm here.
    You won't get banned for saying that, which proves how wrong you are in your statements. Here we don't need to ban the newcomers who have the sole intention of bashing and play the "all mighty". Those members usually choose to leave by themselves because they don't find enough echo here.
    Because thanks to rules and lots of work, our long term members, though diverse, direct and unperfect as any human, are usually clever and polite.
    I would actualy like you to stay for longer, to join other discussions, to read through old threads, to get to know the members without prejudice so that, 6 months from now, you can regret what you wrote today.
    Last edited by McReis; 01-30-2007 at 04:19 AM.
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  6. #291
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    I hope you didn't take too long writing that, I doubt he'll read it. That is if he ever comes back.
    PPC - Put a V8 in it!

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfAdv
    Personally, motor swaps piss me off and it doesn't have anything to do with swaps being American, it isn't an American phenomenon. Motor swaps of a drastic nature (V8s into cars that come with fours) do infact show some level of ignorance, probably many levels of ignorance.
    In what way? This owner is "ignorant" because he wanted to make a unique modern day hotrod? Dont you think if this swap really did hurt the handling that bad, the owner would know, and obviously not care since he did the swap anyway? So how is he ignorant? Because he took a sports car and added a good amount of power, and possibly hurt the handling a little? Boo friggen hoo.

    It's no mystery how a 400 hp Miata would handle... badly. Unless, you always have the tranny in a couple of gears higher than the speed dictates just to control the torque, then you're only trying to cover the chassis' inability to handle the power. Unlike NFS, you can't defy physics by ever bigger boxes of speed parts.
    Because you have to go WOT every time you want to go fast right? For the last time, the throttle isnt an on/off switch, so dont treat it like one.

    You're not being a troll but the problem is how you came into an on-going forum discussion and stated how we're being ignorant. No one including me hates torque or lots of power, but in replying to someone who always seems to offer torque as the solution, the answer is sometimes equally one-sided and seamingly ignorant.
    No, the problem is you and other are assuming this is some kind of "solution" when really its just some guy doing an interesting and fun swap. No one is saying its any better or any worse than something else.

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by McReis
    Of course Slicks and his friend laughed about it's acceleration. Because they failed to understand or to try out what the car has in it's favour which, more than just balance, is it's lightness and extremely sharp front end. Those are qualities that can't be there when you drop a V8 in the front. You can keep the weight distribution, but you can't avoid the weight increase. Then, having a very short wheelbase, it's near impossible to keep the sharp turn and that feel that you can really use the power available.
    We both fully understood what the car was made for, but to us (and many others) we expect a $20,000 sports car to have atleast decent acceleration.
    And ofcourse we took it around some turns, and its not nearly a "god on wheels" like you all make it out to be.

  9. #294
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    Don't take this personally, but I really dislike having discussions with people who are only able to see their own POV. I see your POV and don't totally disagree with what this guy has done. But...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    In what way? This owner is "ignorant" because he wanted to make a unique modern day hotrod? Dont you think if this swap really did hurt the handling that bad, the owner would know, and obviously not care since he did the swap anyway? So how is he ignorant? Because he took a sports car and added a good amount of power, and possibly hurt the handling a little? Boo friggen hoo.
    I don't like hotrods. If you cannot understand that you cannot triple and quadruple the power and expect a chassis to handle it, what's the point. No car is that over-engineered. No friggin way.

    Because you have to go WOT every time you want to go fast right? For the last time, the throttle isnt an on/off switch, so dont treat it like one.
    It's a question of degree. Why do sandbags help launch a car on ice? Is the driver treating the accelerator like an on/off switch?

    No, the problem is you and other are assuming this is some kind of "solution" when really its just some guy doing an interesting and fun swap. No one is saying its any better or any worse than something else.
    True? That fire truck with the jet engine is fun too. It's just that I've been saying all along that performance isn't always about having the most power possible. Then again this car may be about smoke-outs, big, smelly, everlasting burnouts. Which may be fun, at least for me though, equally senseless as the fire truck, but amazing nonetheless. Still, don't expect that fire truck to put out too many fires, maybe start them. Similarly, the LSx Miata is a conundrum...
    "Racing improves the breed" ~Sochiro Honda

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    We both fully understood what the car was made for, but to us (and many others) we expect a $20,000 sports car to have atleast decent acceleration.
    And ofcourse we took it around some turns, and its not nearly a "god on wheels" like you all make it out to be.
    What year was that MX-5 to cost $20.000?
    BTW: there are no "gods on wheels" for the price of a Miata NA, at least RWD. For the value, and for the kind of car, yes, it's the best thing around.
    Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by McReis
    What year was that MX-5 to cost $20.000?
    BTW: there are no "gods on wheels" for the price of a Miata NA, at least RWD. For the value, and for the kind of car, yes, it's the best thing around.
    It was a 2nd gen Miata, dont remember the exact year, probably a '99 or '00.

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfAdv
    Don't take this personally, but I really dislike having discussions with people who are only able to see their own POV. I see your POV and don't totally disagree with what this guy has done. But...
    I see your POV, the only this is you have nothing leading for you to believe that the handling of the car is absolutely destroyed.
    Who says the owner didnt reinforce the chassis, and tweak the suspension?

    I don't like hotrods. If you cannot understand that you cannot triple and quadruple the power and expect a chassis to handle it, what's the point. No car is that over-engineered. No friggin way.
    Read above ^.
    It's a question of degree. Why do sandbags help launch a car on ice? Is the driver treating the accelerator like an on/off switch?
    Ice is near a friction-less surface (with normal tires), quite different than pavement. Its like comparing it to sand...
    Either way the car will react very differently if you treat the throttle like an on/off switch opposed to a throttle.

    True? That fire truck with the jet engine is fun too. It's just that I've been saying all along that performance isn't always about having the most power possible. Then again this car may be about smoke-outs, big, smelly, everlasting burnouts. Which may be fun, at least for me though, equally senseless as the fire truck, but amazing nonetheless. Still, don't expect that fire truck to put out too many fires, maybe start them. Similarly, the LSx Miata is a conundrum...
    And NO ONE is saying this is the best (or best possible) performance Miata ever. Its just a cool swap, and undoubtably a good performer.

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicks
    Who says the owner didnt reinforce the chassis, and tweak the suspension?.
    But you would need to extend the wheelbase to make it controllable with lots of power applied.
    "A woman without curves is like a road without bends, you might get to your destination quicker but the ride is boring as hell'

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matra et Alpine
    But you would need to extend the wheelbase to make it controllable with lots of power applied.
    Small wheelbase (alone) will make it twitchy but not necessarily uncontrollable, will it? (I'm thinking Lancia Stratos here)
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  15. #300
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    The Stratos has nowhere near the power of this thing, at least 120hp less for the Grp4 version and over 200hp less for the HF Stradale
    Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
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