VS Holden Commodore with VP motor...

[Daz27]

Ive just been given a VS commode, however it has the older style VP non-sequentially injected buick style V6 in it. Ive been told after 20 key starts the memcal (VS) will reset its parametres and happily run the older style engine. Is there anyone out there that has heaps of knowledge on the late 90's commodores that might be able to offer some advice here.
Also, a Holden qualified mechanic told me I cant drop a 5.0L V8 into my V6 car because there is a difference in the k-frame which prevents the motor bolting up in the correct position, is this true also. Ive noticed I can get a 5.0 for roughly the same as a rebuilt 3.8L and to be honest, the V6 does not give me a mongrel like the sweet sound of a V8 does.
Any help will be vastly appreciated.

[h00t_h00t]

I seriously doubt that trying to run it with the stock electronics will work. Also the sub-frame (k-frame?) mountings will be different so you'll need one of those, the fuel pump may (probably will) differ to cope with the extra fuel usage in a proper V8 car, the front springs and dampers will be softer in your car because they have less weight to support so adding the V8 is going to cause the front to perminantly dip, unless you change those too. One last thing, will your gearbox mount up to the V8 and can it cope with the power?

My opinion would be sell your car and buy one with a V8 in already.

[Daz27]

Apparantly they had the motor running ok, but it doesnt have headers (or any exhaust system for that matter) so it would set things on fire... Im sitting here now pricing parts. It already has a new TH700 in it. As far as I am aware, its a new bellhousing, flexplate and Tq convertor to mate it up to a V8. The subframe is prooving to be elusive. What I am wondering now is with a new chip, will the GM computer run the V8?
Ive got a mate who has a 5.0 sitting in his shed, he wants a grand for it and it has its loom etc still attached.
The springs and shocks are going to be replaced either way as the shocks are worn and the springs have been (typical for a commodore) chopped with an angle grinder. Thats an easy job though.
Basically apart from the shocks and lack of a decent motor, the car is in ok condition I guess, she wants a coat of paint, and some bits of trim replaced, but other than that, be a shame to let her go cos she'll only be wrecked. If anyone has a VS they are wrecking let me know.

[h00t_h00t]

Chipping the ECU is bad idea when buying the proper ECU would be less headache inducing for not a lot more money.

Its doesn't sound like the car is in a condition where all this work is worth it. Look at how much your budget is for the swap and how much are V8 commodores in a similar condition, is it cheaper to do the swap?

[Daz27]

Ok, homework... 304 V8 with loom $1000 plus freight. Bellhousing, Flex and Tq convertor about $600, Lowered V8 springs $120 each end. New shocks are about $400. An ecu I can get for around $200 from a mate. Exhaust is about $700 in stainless from the headers back. Im not sure if I have to change the tailshaft just yet but I am assuming no. I havent priced up a subframe yet purely because I havent looked for one yet. Im allowing about $400 for the paint (I can spraypaint awesome) and Im not allowing anything for the mechanical work because thats what I do for a living and I have free access to anything I need including a hoist. You mentioned a fuel pump there somewhere, I'll get a V8 one for an SS from a mate at a Holden dealer. That brings it all to a total of about $4500 accounting for snafus, but not counting rims or tyres. I have the added luxury of not needing the car for a while, and free storage where it is sitting now indefinately. Ive also noticed that an SS commodore will set me back about 7 or 8 grand so I'll come in way under that. Theres a few trim parts missing or buggered inside the car, but apart from the dud motor and shit paint, its really not that bad, straight and rust free.

[clutch-monkey]

brakes... i reccomend bigger brakes. ones that work. And bigger tires if possible (not sure if necessary).
sounds like a cool project

[nota]

Saw a VQ V8 Statesman with good mech but minor front damage (like Slick's) on ebay for around a grand ..

[Daz27]

Geez I missed that...

Um C-M, brakes, well Ive just pulled my head outta a hot holdens mag and apparantly you can bolt twin piston VT-VY calipers and discs straight on... Yet another item from the wreckers. I really like the idea of a GTS body kit too... and a colour similar to the orange that kubota tractors use, (the new lighter shade, its VERY orange)

[SlickHolden]

I'm shocked that you can run a VP engine off the VS ECU anyway, One thing i know is the VS motor runs less timing then the Buick engine.
Too replace the Ecotec engine in a VS with a VP motor takes as much effort too replace a VP motor in a VP with a ecotec VS engine. The effort behind that doesn't make seance going backwards not forwards.
If you have the electronic 4speed TH700 then it's more then likely it's a VR engine which should share the same engine looms as the VS motor because of the Electronic Transmission.

One very good place too really get the best advice and help because i'm 100% sure people have done it and i know of some Commodore guys in SA that are big on there cars and can maybe send you in the right direction are here...

http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/

The VS was very good at fitting a VX HSV kit too them.
Also you can see the VT upgrade brakes on Ebay under "VT brakes"
For the VR onwards it's much easier too upgrade these brakes without changing hubs etc.

[Daz27]

Thanks for that Slick, hows your brother goin btw? Hope hes getten better. I should change my Avy too, Im in Townsville now.
How do I distinguish a VR V6 from a VN-Vp one? Is there somethen in the engine number that gives it away?
I believe the shitty old buick was dropped in there because the last owner couldnt find an ecotec within there budget, the loom has had a fairly decent chop up in the engine bay. Not to impressed. I got told that the motor runs ok with that computer, but it catches fire....Which led me to ask the obvious question of wtf does it catch fire... It has no headers on it... Dumbass's.
So yeah. The things not worth a nickel's worth of flea shit as a wreck, besides which its too straight to waste anyway so I figure I should do somethen creative with it before the baby is born. Haha. Fun.

[2ndclasscitizen]

How do I distinguish a VR V6 from a VN-Vp one? Is there somethen in the engine number that gives it away?

The VR V6 shouldn't really be any different to the VN-VP V6, IIRC the Ecotec came in with the VS. The way you can tell the Buick from the Ecotec is the the Buick will have 3800 on it, probably on the throttle body assembly at the rear of the engine.

VN V6:

[Daz27]

Thats not what I was asking but thanks for the clarification... What I would like to know is if there is a way to tell an earlier buick from the later one in the VR?
Chucked it on ebay anyways... wonder if itll sell...

[SlickHolden]

Thanks for that Slick, hows your brother goin btw? Hope hes getten better. I should change my Avy too, Im in Townsville now.
How do I distinguish a VR V6 from a VN-Vp one? Is there somethen in the engine number that gives it away?
I believe the shitty old buick was dropped in there because the last owner couldnt find an ecotec within there budget, the loom has had a fairly decent chop up in the engine bay. Not to impressed. I got told that the motor runs ok with that computer, but it catches fire....Which led me to ask the obvious question of wtf does it catch fire... It has no headers on it... Dumbass's.
So yeah. The things not worth a nickel's worth of flea shit as a wreck, besides which its too straight to waste anyway so I figure I should do somethen creative with it before the baby is born. Haha. Fun.

Your welcome
He's doing pretty good he's getting around now but it looks like they want too keep him in alot longer now because there is a chance he might have some type of perminet concussion, It's got another name but they want too do plenty of rehab with him.

How do I distinguish a VR V6 from a VN-Vp one? Is there somethen in the engine number that gives it away?

easiest way i have learnt from is this, Cause there are 3 engines even though the same they are different.
The VN will have the water pump at the back of the engine, And it's coil pack will look like 3 blocks the same as 2Class's pic.
The VP engine will have water pump on the drivers side front of the engine.
For me the easiest way too pick the VR motor is the dip stick is front passenger side. Hope that helps.
Even though i drive a VP it's been said before and around even by wheels and motor i have been told, The best of the buick motors was the VP, Many believe what was done too the VR motor slowed it and made it worse.
But for a full unbiased account of DaVeePee ask MSN he's good he tells it like it is no bull.
I personally was hard on the car picking at little things MSN said hey it's not too young it's 13-14 years old. It's also over 300,000km now.

[Daz27]

Bugger, its a VR then....
Still looking for a subframe.... any one have one???

[SlickHolden]

I wonder if it's a VR and they are trying too flog it off as a VS ?