Toyota Camery

[Blitz_]

Hah..stock production sedan?

Audi's, Saab's, beemers all look superior to anything from GM, even at a base sedan comparison.

From down under, ive said it before and ill say it again, both the falcon and commodore look much superior in stock form.

The impala's design is generic, boring, and underwhelming. It doens't appeal to me at all IMO.

[MRDETROITMETAL]

ahhhm Blitz,......Sabb IS GM.......So is Holden.

?????

Clutch...you mean by "our"...british cars ?
like TVR, (owned by a russian group)....Aston Martin (owned by FORD)...or what ?

?????????


...or is this all just like the talking heads lyrics..."stop making sense, stop making sense"
oh yea I got a girlfriend, she's better than this....Chop Something !!!

Out of desperation I will post THIS then to get you going;

[Blitz_]

Holden however design cars far and beyond above the general range of GM NA products

[clutch-monkey]

Clutch...you mean by "our"...british cars ?
like TVR, (owned by a russian group)....Aston Martin (owned by FORD)...or what ?

first time i've heard england described as 'sub-tropical'
no - ford oz and holden make V8's in rwd, GM knows not to try and sell somethign so ludicrous as a bland looking fwd V8 here

[acemotorsport]

first time i've heard england described as 'sub-tropical'
no - ford oz and holden make V8's in rwd, GM knows not to try and sell somethign so ludicrous as a bland looking fwd V8 here

no thats me saying stay the f*** out of aus

[MRDETROITMETAL]

ah ..yes, that is why GM NA is now introducing all new V8 RWD cars for the USA, and losing almost ALL of the FWD stuff, they are even doing a small RWD car too...civic size.

of Course the drive mechanics are Zeta platform and much of that was developed in Aust....which has become the RWD center for GM worldwide, so this is a good thing & it is like I said before Toyo dont know which Direction GM is gonna come at them next....and it rerally does not matter because toyo cannot match GM in Worldwide resources or markets, much less with thier "CARS" vs Automobiles from GM.

GM has won the war. Now they can afford to start the battles. LOL> that is the premise from "the Art of War", a uh, japanese theroretical work published centuries ago.

Guess NOBODY in Toyota read that book huh ?

[clutch-monkey]

ah ..yes, that is why GM NA is now introducing all new V8 RWD cars for the USA, and losing almost ALL of the FWD stuff, they are even doing a small RWD car too...civic size.

this is good news, but ideally they would have done it sooner... anway isn't the commodre the G8 for you guys now??

[MRDETROITMETAL]

hmmm..well the G8 thing, thats supposed to be a secrect.
so c'mon dudes POST a Camry of your own here, no chop master quality required, just paint and paste some "sketch" of what you envision a decent camry to look like would be...
anyway, uh...heres 'nother fast rendidtion of a camry , I mean the car has potential to look OK...but as it is I just wanna puke whenever I see one ...
(which aint too often in S Fla thank god, we all drive Caddys and Corvettes down here !!!);

[The_Canuck]

Look, NOBODY wants to drive a Camry.(at least not any of US here, that much I think we all agree upon....)

Thats why it sells much better then the Impala right?

BUT....alot of people WANT to drive IMPALAS !!...& Chevys in general because the have style, value and heritage.

Or perhaps because they're cheap?

[Esperante]

Quality of GM & toyopet cars ARE on par with each other according to actual consumer ratings. Even Toyo has to admit that. What you comments show is that you have not seen the latest figures, Chevy, caddilac & Buick are all on the same rating as toyo cars. That is Fact.

No, it's not fact, it's a lie you made to make us think otherwise.
From the 2006 Consumer Reports Car Issue

BEST AND WORST MODELS IN RELIABILITY
MOST RELIABLE (In this section, Japanese cars are highlighted)

Small Cars
Toyota Prius
Toyota Corolla
Subaru Impreza (nonturbo)

Sporty Cars/Convertibles
Honda S2000
Lexus Sc430
Cheverolet Monte Carlo

Sedans
Lexus Gs3000/GS430
Infiniti M35/M45
Honda Accord Hybrid

SUVs
Lexus RX400h
Toyota Highlander
Honda CR-V

Minivans
Toyota Sienna

Pickups
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tundra

In case you haven't noticed, EVERY SINGLE CAR, with one GM exception, is Japanese. Four of them are Hondas, and eight of them are Toyotas or Toyota variants.
In case this isn't clear, I'll show you the other list.

LEAST RELIABLE (In this section, American cars are highlited)

Small Cars
Chevy Cobalt

Sporty Cars/Convertibles
VW New Beetle convertible
Mercedes Benz SL
Mercedes Benz CLK
Ford Mustang

Sedans
Jaguar S Type
Mercedes Benz E Class
Saab 9-3

SUVs
Infiniti QX45
VW Touareg
Nissan Armada

Minivans
Nissan Quest
Buick Terraza
Chevy Uplander
Pontiac Montana
Saturn Relay

Pickups
Nissan Titan
Chevy Colorado
GMC Canyon

Hmmm...somehow there were absolutely no Hondas or Toyotas on the second list...and GM managed to steal seven places. What is in your crazy ass backwards mind that is telling you for fact that Toyota and GM are equal in reliability?

Oh wait, that's right, reliability doesn't matter any more. Perhaps you'd like to see some other statistics.

MOST AND LEAST SATISFYING CARS

MOST SATISFYING(Japanese cars are highlited)

Coupes/Convertibles
Lexus SC430
Scion Tc

Sports Cars
Chevy Corvette
Ford Mustang (V8)
Honda S2000
MINI COOPER S
Subaru Impreza
Audi S4
Mercedes Benz SLK
Porsche 911 Carrera
Porsche Boxster

Small Cars
Toyota Echo
Mazda 3
Honda Civic Hybrid

Family Cars
Toyota Prius
Subaru Legacy GT
VW Passat TDI
Toyota Camry
Honda Accord
Honda Accord Hybrid

Wagons
Dodge Magnum
Scion xB

Large Cars
Toyota Avalon
Chrysler 300C

Upscale Cars
Acura TL
Acura TSX

Luxury Cars
Infiniti M35/M45
Lexus GS300/GS430
Lexus LS430
Audi A6

Small SUVs
Honda Element

Midsize SUVs
Lexus RX330
Lexus RX400h
Land Rover
Honda Pilot
Toyota 4Runner

Large SUVs
Toyota Land Cruiser
Lexus LX470

Minivans
Honda Odyssey
Toyota Sienna

Pickup Trucks
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tundra
Toyota Tacoma

Once again, Japanese companies sweep the board, with Honda taking in ten spots and Toyota taking in SIXTEEN places. GM racked a pitiful ONE for the Corvette!

LEAST SATISFYING (American cars are highlited)

Convertibles
Chrysler Sebring Convertible

Small Cars
Suzuki Aerio
Saturn Ion
Nissan Sentra
Mitsubishi Lancer (non Evolution)

Family Cars
Kia Optima
Pontiac Grand Prix (non supercharged)
Ford Taurus
Chrysler Sebring
Dodge Stratus

Small SUVs
Chevy Equinox
Suzuki XL-7
Mitsubishi Outlander

Minivans
Buick Terraza
Chevy Uplander
Pontiac Montana SV6
Saturn Relay
Chrysler Town & Country
Dodge Caravan

Pickup Trucks
Ford Ranger
Mazda B Series

GM takes eight places and Honda/Toyota take ZERO. You were saying?

[BIGWORM_25]

Finally some real facts!! Amazing isnt it that the one and only (at least MOSTLY) un-biased magazine tells the truth!! And on top of that all you really have to do is look around anyway.Hell I live in South Carolina (hold your redneck jokes lol) and we are one of the biggest customers for G.M. especially Chevrolet and they are out numbered three to one by Accord Camry.My Father-In-Law has a 2006 Impala LS Leather Moonroof Six Disc etc.etc. and he HATES it.AND he went to trade it in on a CAMRY and they were only going to give him around $12,900 for it...and its only got 9200 miles or so!!!If that is "value" they can keep them.He paid like $19000 for it a little over a year ago so he kept it.When he asked the manager why it was such a low resale he was told because the used car market is FLOODED with them due to RENTAL companies.On top of the fact that the are one of the highest traded cars in the industry due to G.M. giving them away for 0% financing and $8000+ off the sticker for SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long.And due to an accident I had in December I had the (ahem) "priveledge" to drive a Cobalt.What a piece of shit!!

[SPHFerrari]

Interesting data Esperante. Looks like hard to argue with facts.

But, lets not forget, GM did take in a revenue of 192.6 billion dollars in 2006. This is a fact, according to CNN.

HOWEVER, their PROFITS, the only thing that is important to running a busines, amounted to -10.6 BILLION dollars. thats right, even though they brought in 192 billion, they spent 202 billion dollars, meaning they LOST MONEY. Their % change in profits from the 2004 fiscal year was -477.9%. Thats right, another negative number.

Their stock lost $18.69 per share in 2006.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...shots/563.html

Meanwhile, in 2006, Toyota brought in a revenue of 185.8 Billion dollars. Their total profits amounted to 12.1 Billion dollars. This is an 11.2% increase over the 2004 fiscal year.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...hots/1445.html

[BIGWORM_25]

people are actually posting accurate ,informative information.Kudos guys.

[MRDETROITMETAL]

Oh please not consumer reports !!!!...the most biased reporting of all...they were even cited for accepting payments from TOYOTA for good reviews...Please.

find a REAL source for actual owners surveys and that list is TOTALLY different with GM cars in the top of quaity ratings and satifaction !!

Try automobile mag...or even the aol autos...its a bit different there. Again CR started as a Appliance rating system and is really not qualified IMO to rate automobiles in a real world manner.

Stick to the facts:
But, lets not forget, GM did take in a revenue of 192.6 billion dollars in 2006. This is a fact, according to CNN.
Meanwhile, in 2006, Toyota brought in a revenue of 185.8 Billion dollars.
...uh thats quite a bit more than TOYOTA earned in my book, plus add in the capital investment cash and more cash from the sale of GMAC ...well, GM is in real good shape to squash Toyolet.

As for the financial statements I already said the GM is SPENDING most of the earnings to develop new models and integrate the World operations, so dont be misled by the numbers look at the coverage GM has in ALL the world markets and that they are selling well in every one. Thats the real GM at work. Plus remember that both cpmpanies have different reporting methods due to the government taxation rates in the Home country too, GM had greatly reduced thier taxation liabiity through this reporting method....and by allowing the stock price to lower below the level of "option" clauses in emplyment contracts they got rid of all those dead weight employees with NO futher liability to them either in stock nor benefits, plus saving the salary costs too...a very shrewd move on thier part there IMO.

All I said was DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE the General, they have resources far exceeding what is apparent from simple statements,...and are known for reinvesting HUGE sums to create new automobiles which is obviously working for them ...over 9 million cars sold in the last two consecutive years means that SOMEBODY and of alot of somebody's are BUYING GM all day long !!!

[SPHFerrari]

OK, until you can provide sources for your so called facts, you sound like an idiot. show us where you heard consumer reports was accepting payments from anybody, or was not qualified to rate automobiles. after all, they arent rating them, they are collecting data from real, actual owners of these automobiles. back up your ludicrous statements with some facts, please.

...uh thats quite a bit more than TOYOTA earned in my book, plus add in the capital investment cash and more cash from the sale of GMAC ...well, GM is in real good shape to squash Toyolet.

the fact that you dont understand the difference between revenue and profits just adds fuel to my speculation that you dont actually run a successful business. but thats another story.

CNN's statisics (and dont start telling us CNN are all a bunch of liars and if we got the real facts it would show GM is teh coolest) show that while GM did bring in more cold hard cash, they spent more than that. This means, they made NEGATIVE MONEY.

Now, whether this is just warming up for some huge surge in sales, AND PROFITS, remains to be seen, but it is unlikely.

As for the financial statements I already said the GM is SPENDING most of the earnings to develop new models and integrate the World operations,

they didnt spend MOST of their earnings, they spent ALL of it and MORE.

.over 9 million cars sold in the last two consecutive years means that SOMEBODY and of alot of somebody's are BUYING GM all day long !!!

and every time one of these 9 million people bought one, GM lost money.

AND, lets not forget, GM's sales are gradually declining, while Toyota's are rising. General Motors is still on top, but if the current trend continues, it will not be long before Toyota overtakes it.

Now, dont make another post with statements that have no evidence to back them up. We all provided factual resources, with links, and you have just added your own speculation.

Heres what you set yourself up to show us sources for:
1. Consumer Reports is fraudulent, accepting payoffs from large corps.
2. Real sources show GM cars as being better quality and satisfaction than Toyota's
3. Evidence that GM is going to increase its revenue of its expenditure, making it a profitable company.