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Thread: best guitar player?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esperante
    Find me a vid of Zappa playing faster than this please ... I just tried and I couldn't find what you're basing that on.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=c7Itj0PbyvY

  2. #32
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    ok i hate to break the whole theme here but once again the debate for 'best guitar player' has turned into 'person who can move his fingers fastest and make super mario sounds on a guitar'. Really..the debate over who can play the guitar the best is down to Music. Performance. Atmosphere. Continuity. Originality. All of these things need to be put into consideration. Thats why i voted jonny greenwood.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by :Exige:
    Find me a vid of Zappa playing faster than this please ... I just tried and I couldn't find what you're basing that on.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=c7Itj0PbyvY
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=RGS9GaMgZi8

    Now you show me a video of John Petrucci doing this:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=uFHSk_lEe...elated&search=

    or composing this:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=g3gqee7dh...elated&search=

    Also, there is a comment to that first video very much applicable to this subject:
    Quote Originally Posted by weedeedledee
    All great players. Musical content is the part of it that is entertaining for most people. I'm really impressed by all of Eric Johnsons capabilities except for the songwriting. Isn't music an intellectual,emotional artform about communication? Or should we just admire physical dexterity? Perhaps if we do that in the future it will become a sport dominated by jocks rather than an artform.
    Last edited by Esperante; 01-18-2007 at 05:13 PM.
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  4. #34
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    I'm with Exige on this one. He said a better guitarist, not musician. IMO John Frusciante is a great songwriter, but he's not the best guitarist. It's great if someone can write an emotional ballad, but being a better guitarist is about playing more technically difficult stuff, not writing better songs. A good guitarist can play a really hard song cleanly. A good musician can write a really good song and play it cleanly.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo_man
    I'm with Exige on this one. He said a better guitarist, not musician. IMO John Frusciante is a great songwriter, but he's not the best guitarist. It's great if someone can write an emotional ballad, but being a better guitarist is about playing more technically difficult stuff, not writing better songs. A good guitarist can play a really hard song cleanly. A good musician can write a really good song and play it cleanly.
    How is being a good guitarist different from being a good musician? By calling one a guitarist, you are calling him a musician who plays guitar.
    Last edited by Esperante; 01-18-2007 at 05:25 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esperante
    How is being a good guitarist different from being a good musician? By calling one a guitarist, you are calling him a musician who plays guitar.
    As I said before, you can be a good guitarist and a crap song writer (and vice versa). And we ARE specifying the instrument here ... it's even in the title if you have any trouble spotting what instrument it is.

    And in neither of those videos can I see (or hear) Zappa playing faster than Petrucci, and don't even talk about the accuracy. He fell short of a full bend multiple times.

    @Cotterik: Originality is down to the person who WRITES the song ... not the person who plays it. Strangely (or not), you can write guitar solos and still not be able to play guitar. It's called knowing notes/chords etc etc. And atmosphere is down to the stage designer/set designer etc etc. If you're talking about the guitarist jumping about and stuff ... it is also wierd that you can be bad at guitar and still jump about and crowd surf.

    the debate for 'best guitar player' has turned into 'person who can move his fingers fastest
    Guess what! That's how you play guitar! You move your fingers across the fretboard with your left hand, and make them make a noise with your right hand, sometimes with a piece of plastic to help! You learn something new everyday, eh?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esperante
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=RGS9GaMgZi8

    Now you show me a video of John Petrucci doing this:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=uFHSk_lEe...elated&search=

    or composing this:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=g3gqee7dh...elated&search=

    Also, there is a comment to that first video very much applicable to this subject:
    My pet debating point. Let me say that a question like who is the best guitar player can’t be answered unless you have heard everyone who plays (and there are some awesome unknowns out there) and you have a frame of reference.
    Is the best the fastest, the one with the most emotion (very subjective), your favourite, the one with the best tone (very subjective) , the most influential, the one who can play the most chords/scales etc…

    Being a wannabe guitar player I really do stand in awe of those guys who can play fast cleanly and outside the normal blues/pentatonic type of scales .

    That Zappa clip is awesome but I reckon Petrucci could do it. In part because he is so accomplished and Zappas stuff is not a million miles from the prog playing Petrucci does and also because Dream theatre actually do shows where they cover other bands entire albums and having heard some of this Petrucci not only is awesome at his own compositions but he can nail others chops and licks amazingly. He is one of my favourites (as you can probably tell).

    My favourites for some or all the above reasons are

    Petrucci, Vai, Eddie, Hendrix, Frank Gambale, Eric Johnson, Satriani, Donald Roeser, Brian May, David Gilmour, Alan Holdsworth, Tom Scholz, Steve Lukather, Malmsteen, Dave Grohl, Neal Schon, Gary Moore, Jeff Beck, Mark Knoppfler, John McLaughlin, Ritchie Blackmore, Vernon Reid, Randy Rhoads, Steve Morse, John Sykes, Larry Carlton, Vivian Campbell, Jan Ackerman, Larry Coryell, Steve Howell, Michael Schenker, Tony McAlpine.

    List is incomplete but a start.



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    Egg Nogg 02-04-2005, 05:07 AM

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by :Exige:

    He fell short of a full bend multiple times.
    I think you need to understand where Zappa is coming from. There is no law that says a bend must be a full or half note.
    "A string is approximately nine long."
    Egg Nogg 02-04-2005, 05:07 AM

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by :Exige:
    As I said before, you can be a good guitarist and a crap song writer (and vice versa). And we ARE specifying the instrument here ... it's even in the title if you have any trouble spotting what instrument it is.

    @Cotterik: Originality is down to the person who WRITES the song ... not the person who plays it. Strangely (or not), you can write guitar solos and still not be able to play guitar. It's called knowing notes/chords etc etc. And atmosphere is down to the stage designer/set designer etc etc. If you're talking about the guitarist jumping about and stuff ... it is also wierd that you can be bad at guitar and still jump about and crowd surf.

    Guess what! That's how you play guitar! You move your fingers across the fretboard with your left hand, and make them make a noise with your right hand, sometimes with a piece of plastic to help! You learn something new everyday, eh?
    Sorry, but I still disagree entirely with everything you're saying. Playing an instrument is NOT simply mechanically moving your fingers to the right places. It is about interpretation, it is about the communication of an emotion or emotions, it is about producing character and style through tone, timbre, phrasing etc etc. The way you describe it is as though all music comes from the composer, and the performers are mere conduits for their ideas. In that case we might aswell just get the composer to write the music and programme it into a computer for playback. After all, a computer could play faster and harder and longer than any human guitarist. It's a ridiculous idea.

    So in your view Eric Clapton and BB King et al are crap guitarists, because they cannot play enormously fast? Utter nonsense!

    And what of the great classical performers? 99% of the time they perform works from the great composers, not their own. Was Yehudi Menhuin not a musician then, just a mere fiddler? Is Alfred Brendel just some robot for playing Beethoven sonatas?

    I don't know what kind of musical background you have musically speaking, but from what I can gather your opinions are those of someone who is not himself a musician. Or at least from someone who does not understand what it really is to be a musician.
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  10. #40
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    Surprised 'slowhand' hasn't been mentioned yet. He may not be the fastest, or the most electrifying, but there's something about his style that I love listening to.

    EDIT: J_B brought up Clapton.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Bauer
    Sorry, but I still disagree entirely with everything you're saying. Playing an instrument is NOT simply mechanically moving your fingers to the right places. It is about interpretation, it is about the communication of an emotion or emotions, it is about producing character and style through tone, timbre, phrasing etc etc. The way you describe it is as though all music comes from the composer, and the performers are mere conduits for their ideas. In that case we might aswell just get the composer to write the music and programme it into a computer for playback. After all, a computer could play faster and harder and longer than any human guitarist. It's a ridiculous idea.

    So in your view Eric Clapton and BB King et al are crap guitarists, because they cannot play enormously fast? Utter nonsense!

    And what of the great classical performers? 99% of the time they perform works from the great composers, not their own. Was Yehudi Menhuin not a musician then, just a mere fiddler? Is Alfred Brendel just some robot for playing Beethoven sonatas?

    I don't know what kind of musical background you have musically speaking, but from what I can gather your opinions are those of someone who is not himself a musician. Or at least from someone who does not understand what it really is to be a musician.
    Amen.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by :Exige:
    As I said before, you can be a good guitarist and a crap song writer (and vice versa). And we ARE specifying the instrument here ... it's even in the title if you have any trouble spotting what instrument it is.
    That was a pretty much omitable sentence. We're arguing whether being a guitarist qualifies you for being a musician. By playing guitar you ARE a musician and you assume the role of conveying emotions through the strings of the guitar and assembling a song. If you compare musicians by their technical ability, music loses its purpose as an art form and becomes an athletic competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by :Exige:
    And in neither of those videos can I see (or hear) Zappa playing faster than Petrucci, and don't even talk about the accuracy. He fell short of a full bend multiple times.
    Then you don't understand Zappa's music. And if you do want to argue technical ability, it's probably worth noting that the brief Petrucci solo you showed me consisted of fast notes on three or four strings and three or four close together frets. Go back and watch some of the quicker moments of 'Suicide Chump' and note that Zappa's notes are often played as quickly as Petrucci's, but all over the neck. In addition, every 'falling short' is intentional, and every little note has its own purpose. Zappa had a care for detail and assembly in his solos moreso than anyone I've ever heard, and that care to detail puts him miles ahead of anyone else, if you ask me.

    Quote Originally Posted by :Exige:
    @Cotterik: Originality is down to the person who WRITES the song ... not the person who plays it. Strangely (or not), you can write guitar solos and still not be able to play guitar. It's called knowing notes/chords etc etc. And atmosphere is down to the stage designer/set designer etc etc. If you're talking about the guitarist jumping about and stuff ... it is also wierd that you can be bad at guitar and still jump about and crowd surf.
    And thus it boils down to subjectivity. You believe a musician is accomplished when he can play stuff fast. I believe a musician is accomplished when he can effectively express himself and be able to blow away without simply playing stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by :Exige:
    Guess what! That's how you play guitar! You move your fingers across the fretboard with your left hand, and make them make a noise with your right hand, sometimes with a piece of plastic to help! You learn something new everyday, eh?
    If you think simply putting your fingers on some strings is all there is to playing guitar, I think you'll find yourself dreadfully mistaken.
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  13. #43
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    Joe Satriani maybe? I like his stuff.

  14. #44
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    In terms of style/composition: Hendrix, David Gilmour, Santana, Joe Satriani, Jeff Beck, Tommy Emmanuel, Pepe Romero. This is all personal opinion, style isn't really debatable. All depends on the style and the listener.

    In terms of raw technical ability, Steve Vai is more capable than Malmsteen, Paul Gilbert, Petrucci, etc, although you're less likely to notice because he doesn't shred as much as either of them. When the comparisons get that lofty, it's really hard to say, but I do honestly think Vai is more versatile and just as (if not more) capable than the rest.

    In terms of shredding and outright speed, you're not going to find anybody better than Michael Angelo Batio or Rusty Cooley.


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  15. #45
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    Ok, let me see if I can explain what I'm thinking. To me, the 'best guitarist' sounds like someone who can play difficult songs/solos/whatever else well. It's more about technical proficiency than originality. Yes you are technically a musician if you play guitar because you play a musical instrument, but imo being a better guitarist sounds more like playing harder stuff than writing songs. A better musician sounds like it's more about the songwriting, improv, and everything as a whole. Now about Clapton and guitarists like him, I'm definitely not saying they're bad (a hell of a lot better than me) but they don't seem to be as proficient as people like Satch and Petrucci. You never really know though because Clapton could be able to play a lot harder stuff than he plays in his songs, but shredding doesn't really fit with his kind of music. As much as we would all like to prove our point, being the best guitarist means something different to different people. But then again, Petrucci can time warp...


    Check out some of Petrucci's stuff, it's not all about speed like it may sound like we're making it out to be.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t25AOSxZZkI

    And look at the improv solo starting at 4:34 in this one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljzGgrl4njA

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