Pattakon engine.....legitimate alternative or just another fly-by-night

[CHOOK]

Here is the much called for thread on the Pattakon engine.

Here is your chance Manolis to answer all the questions people have about your engine design.

You have made some outrageous quotes over on other threads:

I declare publicly today, to any one of pattakon’s investors to brink me their shares and I will buy them - immediately - a million times their initial price in US dollars (i.e. for each dollar the investor – any investor – gave, he will take a million dollars in return)."

I wish I had just the one share

I call any professional willing to have a test drive with pattakon’s cars to call me.
And a special offer – it is the challenge you asked for -for you: come for a test drive in Athens and if you see less than I claim, I will pay your first class airplane tickets.

On top of that you have shown heaps of animations and theory. You have sounded more like a car salesman than an engine designer.

So let's get the ball rolling.

How long has this engine been in design phase? How close are you to production of this engine? Can you provide us with some independant third party results on power torque and fuel consumption or are the figures just your own theory? Can you advise whether you are in discussions with auto manufacturers? Have you presented the engine on a world stage?

Here's your big chance.

BTW here is the link to the site:
http://www.pattakon.com/

[revetec]

Hehehehhe!

[Matra et Alpine]

Hehehehhe!

Beee-have !!!
No need to act like others.
Please remain professional. Benefits the discussion AND your image
Thanks

[Coventrysucks]

Beee-have !!!

Bee hive?
Would it not be more of a hornet's nest?

[revetec]

Beee-have !!!
No need to act like others.
Please remain professional. Benefits the discussion AND your image
Thanks

If I think it is good...I will say it is good.
If I think it is bad....I will say that it is bad.
If I think it is funny....I will laugh.

Go look at the flying machine on their website. If in anyway you find that concept anything but funny....I'll hold no respect for you.

[Matra et Alpine]

If I think it is good...I will say it is good.
If I think it is bad....I will say that it is bad.
If I think it is funny....I will laugh.

Kust reminding that childish posts can create an image of being childish.
I've been trygin to clean up this and the revetec so we can get back to and keep on reasonable technical discussion.

Go look at the flying machine on their website. If in anyway you find that concept anything but funny....I'll hold no respect for you.

Of course it got a laugh. BUT it might work, just impractical and a guaranted huge litigation generater The use of the dual rotors directly driven is neat and I'd buy one to behead my enemies !!!!

[manolis]

Initially I was accused for lack of courage to present Pattakon’s projects in an open forums (this specific thread was opened not by me, but to challenge me) and now I am accused for “spending too much time” in open forums to present Pattakon’s projects.
Very fair and honest.

I was also accused for “begging” desperately people to drive Pattakon’s prototypes.
I only challenged them. And the ultimate challenge is “You don’t believe it? Come to check by yourself”.
And the fact is that nobody accepted the challenge.
If you find one case (one is enough) where somebody accepted the challenge and Pattakon “stepped back”, write it down.
I was driving the first VVA prototype car on the roads of Athens and the reply from the moderator of “TOV” (the temple of VTEC) “strictly technical” forums was “you tell lies, there is no prototype at all”. My “begging” and “desperate” reply was (some three years ago): “Come in Athens to see and drive the car, to video it and to present it to your forum members. In case there is no car I will pay for your 1st class airplane tickets and your Hotel”.



Don’t get the articles in magazines and the presentations in TV as THE truth.
In many cases it is a good trap for those who cannot judge by themselves. Think how many lost their money exactly this way.
Don’t take magazines and TV as more reliable than your thinking power and reasoning.
Andy Grove, chairman of Intel : “Base knowledge on facts and analysis rather than on what everybody knows. When everybody knows that something is so, nobody knows nothing.”
The journalist / reporter must have the proper background / experience. And he must spent a lot of time examining and investigating the “case”. Otherwise the article / presentation is far from being a “reference point”.
The presentations of Pattakon’s projects in magazines (in and out of Greece) maybe be excellent. So what? What makes you believe they say the truth? Ignore them and judge by your own.
What you really need is info.
The info provided by Pattakon web site is so vast and complete (most animations relevant to Pattakon’s VVA and other projects are actually made by the “blueprint” CAD drawings used in the machine shop) that the relevant to cylinder heads technology has all it takes to modify a B16A or B18A Honda cylinder head to Pattakon VVA in a week.
Instead of listening to others, listen to your own mind.




Take a look at the photo
www.pattakon.com/vva/RenaultHonda.jpg

Open also the photo collection
www.pattakon.com/vvar/OnBoard/Assembly.exe (1.8 MB)
It shows, step by step, the modification of the Honda B16A cylinder head.

There is also the Citroen / Peugeot 1600cc version (at www.pattakon.com/vts) head.

There is also the Light Version for Honda VTEC B16A and B18A, not yet presented in the Pattakon web site.

The Honda VTEC were selected because it has the TOP power concentration in its class. 160 PS at 7600 rpm from 1600 cc. The challenge is to improve the champion. Not only in power but also in fuel consumption, exhaust emissions, low revs and partial load operation, idling.
Take a look at the www.pattakon.com/vva/VVA_Idle/VVA_Idle.htm . If you know a car capable of doing something similar, please write. Are the data so good to be true?

Thanks
Manolis Pattakos

[lightweight]

It's not an engine by any means!

It's a mechanism of variable valve actuation and a rather interesting if I may add.

[Matra et Alpine]

Took advantage of company access and did a search on the Greek, European and WIPO patent databases and coulnd't find anything.
Can you please provide patent numbers for applied and granted patents on the engine ?

[Matra et Alpine]

Taking a leaf out of your book Manolis, I now would like to ask why you've not answered. I mean that's 8 hours already

[h00t_h00t]

I don't get it, is this a joke? All those diagrams were very obviously drawn on Paint.

[Daz27]

Looking at the PPE, (Ill call it peepee cos it appears to be as weak as piss...) They are very nice pictures. I bet I can break one in under 30 seconds. Me thinks someones gone to one hell of a lot of trouble for an early april fools joke... viva la internal combustion engine

[manolis]

Pattakon Variable Valve Actuation patents and patent applications:

Variable Valve Gear:
1st Priority: GR20010100295
1st PCT Patent Application: PCT/GR02/00035
US Patent: US 6,892,684 (May 17, 2005)

Variable Valve Gear:
2nd PCT Patent Application: PCT/GR04/00043
US Patent Application Publication : 20060091344

Discrete Mode Variable Valve Gear
US Patent Application Publication : 20060196459

Improved Variable Valve Actuation (idling control)
1st Priority : GR20060100245




Pattakon Pulling Piston Engine patent : US 6,062,187 (May 16, 2000)
(four years later Honda received the US 6,763,796 and US 6,763,796 patents on the same exactly subject)




Pattakon Cam Drive Mechanism (GRECO crankless engine)
PCT Patent Application : PCT/GR04/00052




Pattakon Pulling Rod Engine
1st Priority: GR20060100048
PCT Patent Application: PCT/EP2007/050809


In Japan, China etc Patent Offices more data can be found.


Thanks
Manolis Pattakos

[manolis]

I copy Revetec’s complete initial reply to my first post regarding Pattakon GRECO engine:


Dear Manolis,

This company doesn't know anything about breathing. Any engine of this kind has a slower initial piston speed which decreases the initial gas flow past the valve. We have investigated using a cam with a perfect sine wave in piston acceleration and we have found that any engine with a con-rod to stroke ratio of anything over 1.7:1 cannot breathe properly and requires supercharging. The problem with amatures like these people is that they don't understand engines and even though some theory may look good and the design looks simple, doesn't mean there are no inherant problems with what they are trying to do. Companies like this just burn investors money without having any prospect of getting an engine to perform or get to production. All they do is give the engine development industry a bad name. Please someone challenge me on this as I feel like making somebody look stupid today.

BTW. Let's see an actual engine run with figures of this pull rod engine. You'll never find one now or in the future because in real life it wont work properly.

Brad


Spot on the sentence “Companies like this just burn investors money without having any prospect of getting an engine to perform or get to production.”


And here is my reply:

Originally Posted by manolis
I declare publicly today, to any one of pattakon’s investors to brink me their shares and I will buy them - immediately - a million times their initial price in US dollars (i.e. for each dollar the investor – any investor – gave, he will take a million dollars in return)."

My reply simply says to Revetec: Look who is talking…

Thanks
Manolis Pattakos

[manolis]

Because Pattakon is in dept to nobody, it’s up to Pattakon to decide when and what to put in production.
Soon, I can say.

The VVA prototype cars are on the road for long time.
They are AVAILABLE for drive tests like this:
http://www.pattakon.com/vvar/OnBoard/A1.MOV
http://www.pattakon.com/vva/VVA_Idle/VVA_Idle.htm



For the moment, along with the VVA Pattakon projects, priority has the PRE engine (http://www.pattakon.com/pre/PRE14.exe and http://www.pattakon.com/pre/PRE14.gif ). A PRE prototype is currently under construction.



The PPE Pattakon project: Read the Honda Patents (to understand the importance of the long dwell at TDC and how much complication they introduced to achieve it). PPE project is on hold, not because it falls apart in 30 seconds as somebody wrote – the thin rod that connects the piston to the piston pin is loaded only in tension – but because the PRE engine offers the same without the thin connecting rod running into the cylinder.



The Pattakon GRECO project, especially the In line three absolutely balanced (as Wankel) engine (at http://www.pattakon.com/greco/Grecoi3.exe ) is frozen, waiting the results of Revetec’s dynos.
Is the GRECO I3 absolutely balanced, without balance shafts?
Has the GRECO I3 just one pair of synchronizing gears?
Does it need more than a conventional, 4 valves per cylinder, DOHC modern cylinder head?
What do you think is the major drawback of GRECO I3 design?



By the way, what is the time limit (the deadline) you give me to reply to your next “strictly technical” questions?

Thanks
Manolis Pattakos