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Thread: New threats for Israel

  1. #1
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    New threats for Israel

    Israel is not exactly best friends with its neighbors, but what appears to be coming is not good. First, Syria is building up it's forces, moving them, and intensifying training. Israel got nervous, especially as the focus of this new buildup and troop movement, seems to be in the direction of the Syria/Israel border. Furthermore, Syria is 1) denying the buildup of military forces near Israel via radio and press, and 2) Defense Minister Peretz (of Syria) is warning Israel to stop tensions with Israel. I find this hypocritical as a Syrian Parliament member told Israel to "not do anything stupid, or there will be a heavy price". I find this hypocritical, as Israel has yet to make any military reaction towards Syria, and Syria is becoming "offensively defensive" towards Israel.

    The Syrian army is usually not exactly one that Israel would worry much about. However, the Syrian military is recieving generous amounts of funding from Iran. This "funding" is not limited to money; Iran is giving Syria everything from long and short range missiles, to naval warships. This is not exactly a surprise considering all very blunt threats Iran makes about "wiping Israel off the map".

    Syria shares borders with Israel, along Israel's North, around the Golan Heights. Due to where the Golan Heights are in respect to the borders, it gives Syria the strategic advantage, which has proved incredibly useful to them throughout the many times they invaded Israel. The most famous example of this is the Yom Kippur war, which was among the most costly wars Israel has ever been through.

    The situation is not looking good....anyone have any thoughts?
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

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    Israel is always asking for it, the reasons for invading Lebanon were as bad as the ones used for Iraq. Assinating people with apaches doesn't go down well either. Nor does having nuclear weapons and pointing them at everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by h00t_h00t View Post
    Israel is always asking for it, the reasons for invading Lebanon were as bad as the ones used for Iraq. Assinating people with apaches doesn't go down well either. Nor does having nuclear weapons and pointing them at everyone.
    Can you please at least use diplomatic language. I have VERY strong feelings for the homeland of my people, and I'd prefer it if people didn't use language that in itself is deliberately offending.

    And they point those nuclear weapons at so many people, because the majority of the countries around them have one wish for their relations with Israel - to stop all existance of relations, along with the existance of Israel. Egypt is at peace with Israel, because America pays them, Syria is building up its forces, the terrorists attack them from Lebanon, Iran is building nuclear weapons while declaring their primary goal is to obliterate Israel, and Russia deals with Syria KNOWING, with physical evidence, that the weapons that they sell to Syria are ending up in Hezbollah's hands. I don't see how thats asking for it when virtually everyone around you is against you.

    Once again - please do not say anything deliberately offending. I understand you might be against Israel's actions - I am not blind, and I know that some of the things Israel does are not exactly the best.
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

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    pointing nukes around works...and if syria really wants to get blown up by them, i say they should go for it



    but seriously...syria doesnt stand a chance
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    Quote Originally Posted by werty View Post
    pointing nukes around works...and if syria really wants to get blown up by them, i say they should go for it



    but seriously...syria doesnt stand a chance
    Syria has Iranian/Chinese weapons and funding, and some of Russia's newest and most advanced missiles. They don't have a chance....on their own. However, even alone they could cause alot of damage. With Iran, and things can get very dangerous, very quickly.
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

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    Syria?! No, the biggest threat to Israel is LENS CAPS

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    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    Can you please at least use diplomatic language. I have VERY strong feelings for the homeland of my people, and I'd prefer it if people didn't use language that in itself is deliberately offending.
    Get off your moral high-horse now, before you fall off.

    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    Iran is building nuclear weapons while declaring their primary goal is to obliterate Israel,
    Ah, the pro-Israel propaganda works a charm.

    Iran says it doesn't want nuclear weapons, and I don't think that any of Iran's leaders has ever seriously suggested that Israel should be "obliterated".

    They are harsh critics, obviously, but your comment equates them genocidal fanatics.

    If they were that intent on the "obliteration" of Israel - wouldn't they have made a start before now?

    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    I don't see how thats asking for it when virtually everyone around you is against you.
    That is very Naive.

    Arabic people are Arabic, not stupid.

    Your comment implies that you think that all of these Arbaic nations have one purpose only - the destruction of Israel - a notion which would be rather racist and xenophobic, so you might wish to consider your own request to not "offend" anyone.

    The Middle East is not a situation where any event can be viewed in isolation - the background is so ingrained, it cannot be ignored.

    No one in the region particularly wanted Israel there in the first place, and they compounded the situation by attacking everyone else in the region, and buddying up with the USA to ensure that they were so strong no one else could stand up to them.

    You might say they are "provoked" by terrorists, but the response is usually out of all proportion, and only serves to fans the flames, rather than put them out.

    Invading a sovereign nation because terrorists captured two soldiers?
    And then killing hundreds of innocent civilians, because the terrorists responded to an invasion by firing rockets into Israel.

    Nothing was actually achieved by Israel's actions - aside from a lot of people being killed, and massively bolstering anti-Israeli support around the globe.

    The problem in the Middle East was/is not the fault of the Israeli people (nor the Arabs), but their government doesn't seem to be working particularly hard to resolve the issue. Thanks to the USA, they are certainly one of the most powerful countries in the region, but they don't seem to be using that power for good.

    Offer to help their neighbours, not bomb them; rebuild bridges in south Lebanon, perhaps, instead of destroying them.

    If Israel isn't happy with Iran being "aggressive", perhaps Israel should stop assassinating Iranian scientists and asking the USA if they can fly their bomb-laden jets over Iraq on the way through.

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    its touchy, world war 3 maybe. but israel has the US backing it. and the us doesn't gain anything from israel. anyways i stay out of politics. israel gives us no cars, nor does syria
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coventrysucks View Post
    Get off your moral high-horse now, before you fall off.
    I say that because I take personal offense at that statement, as I am a Jew. It has nothing to do with my morals. That is what I meant by "offending". Nothing else. People can say they really dislike Israel's actions, and that Israel is doing the wrong thing, or whatever. But when people give me the sense that they believe that Israel does not have the right to exist, it touches a nerve for me.

    Iran says it doesn't want nuclear weapons, and I don't think that any of Iran's leaders has ever seriously suggested that Israel should be "obliterated".
    Yes, they have. I believe BBC to be a credible source, so here.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4378948.stm

    If they were that intent on the "obliteration" of Israel - wouldn't they have made a start before now?
    Arabic people are Arabic, not stupid.
    Never said they were stupid. I respect the Arab and Muslim people very much. However, I do not respect the terrorists and extremists who publicly demand Israel's annihalation.

    Your comment implies that you think that all of these Arbaic nations have one purpose only - the destruction of Israel - a notion which would be rather racist and xenophobic, so you might wish to consider your own request to not "offend" anyone.
    I listed Egypt, Syria, and Iran. Thats not all. However, the statement from Iran definitely suggests there is at least one powerful country in the area that wants Israel dead. I do see your point in that I am generalizing on this issue, and I will do my best to stop that from here on.

    No one in the region particularly wanted Israel there in the first place, and they compounded the situation by attacking everyone else in the region, and buddying up with the USA to ensure that they were so strong no one else could stand up to them.
    I did not ask for "Palestine" to be where Israel would be situated. The people who created the Zionist movement, did. However, that decision is a little too far in the past to be dealt with at the moment. However, England DID offer around half the land to be given to the Palestinians and Arabs. The current Palestinian leader (I am not sure, but if my memory serves correctly, it was Arafat) refused, saying that the Palestinians would either take the whole land, or none of it. I do not blame the Palestinian people, but it is truly an unfortunate thing that the leader of the time made this decision for the Palestinian people.

    Israel went to the USA because if it did not get arms from the USA quickly, they would be destroyed. In that time, the USA was virtually the only country that would do such a thing for Israel. Also, the War of 1948 was virtually EVERY nearby country attacking Israel, simply because it had been created. Israel did not go out and start attacking people, they were attacked first in that case.

    You might say they are "provoked" by terrorists, but the response is usually out of all proportion, and only serves to fans the flames, rather than put them out.
    Alright, maybe Israel does provoke them sometimes. That doesn't change the fact that BOTH sides need to change something.

    Invading a sovereign nation because terrorists captured two soldiers?
    And then killing hundreds of innocent civilians, because the terrorists responded to an invasion by firing rockets into Israel.
    3 I think. I never said I approved of Israel invading Lebanon, and inf act, that is one of the things Israel has done that I do not approve of. However, Israel did not deliberately kill the civilians. First, there have been hundreds of findings that some of the pictures released from the "Lebanese Government" had people faking dead, or were doctored. I do not mean to claim that "so few civilians died" or something; I am just pointing out that some imagery was overdone. Also, Hezbollah would sometimes collect civilians and take them into the building where they were hiding, so if the building was bombed, Israel looks like sociopathic monsters. I believe Israel has enough military intelligence that they at least sometimes KNEW that this was happening, and therefore I condemn some of these building-bombings because they could have tried to be more careful. Overall the whole conflict was very immoral and wrong on both sides.

    Nothing was actually achieved by Israel's actions - aside from a lot of people being killed, and massively bolstering anti-Israeli support around the globe.
    I agree, which leads to two seperate points. 1) I agree that nothing was really accomplished, and that in the end, it was a bad mistake and blunder. However, 2), Because of this new rise in anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic feelings (various people turn it into a Judaism = Israel and that it is the Jews that cause a lack of world peace), I believe, as a Jew it is partly my responsibility to, while being reasonable, try to show people that Israel is not the horrifying monster it is sometimes portrayed as.

    The problem in the Middle East was/is not the fault of the Israeli people (nor the Arabs), but their government doesn't seem to be working particularly hard to resolve the issue. Thanks to the USA, they are certainly one of the most powerful countries in the region, but they don't seem to be using that power for good.
    The problem in the Middle East, is no particular groups fault. It is a culmination of various groups NOT doing something to stop this. As a result, I believe both the anti-Israeli Arabs and the aggressive Israelis are the ones who need to start fixing this mess. BTW, the "anti-Israeli Arabs" and "aggressive Israelis" were not meant to be generalizations - I just don't have anything else to call the groups besides the extremists of Israel and the Arab World.

    Offer to help their neighbours, not bomb them; rebuild bridges in south Lebanon, perhaps, instead of destroying them.
    I agree that this is the way to go. However, I also believe that, however it is done, relations with the more extreme elements in Islam must become friendly first. I do not believe violence is the way to do this, but I do not believe just suddenly rebuilding is going to make Hezbollah feel all warm and cuddly inside.

    If Israel isn't happy with Iran being "aggressive", perhaps Israel should stop assassinating Iranian scientists and asking the USA if they can fly their bomb-laden jets over Iraq on the way through.
    I do not know much about the fighters flying over Iraq thing, and will read about that later. As for assasinations, I almost always condemn those. Example: If you assasinate someone because of their views, that is wrong. However, if someone had assasinated Saddam.....if what they accused him of was correct, then that is something I would not condemn.

    As I do not know exactly who these scientists are (With Iran's "Scholarly study of the Holocaust" recently, I am not sure what they call scientists anymore), could you show me some reports on these people. Please do not give me reports from Iran itself, as considering the press is government controlled, and their president has, publicly, called for the destruction of Israel, I am more cautious of their press.

    I feel there is a misunderstanding in my views about Israel, so I shall summarize them briefly.

    I am not a blind pro-Israel type of person. I disagree with alot of what Israel does. However, it is the type of situation where there are hundreds of things I wish so much could be avoided, but sometimes I have to be understanding. These people are constantly under stress, and I admire the average Israeli for first of all, being able to get over the fear of knowing somewhere there will be another bombing that day, and at the same time, that the majority of the Israeli population does not hold all Arabs responsible. They realize first hand, as 1/5th of the Israeli population is Arab, that not all Arab's are these terrorists and extremists. I agree with this, as it is correct, and is perhaps going to be the key in bringing this conflict to a close.

    I understand that not everyone is pro-Israel, but as Coventry mentioned, alot of people use this as a reason to hate Israel, and in many cases sadly, also the Jews. As a Jew of Slavic decent, I am proud of both of my roots, hence why I somewhat feel it is partly my responsibility to at least try to convince people not hate Israel for being Israel, or Jews for being Jews. I know I cannot make people believe that Israel is in the right, because that would be unrealistic. I am sorry if people are not used to my being an activist of any sort, but I find this to be a cause worth fighting, peacefully, for.
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolieman1220 View Post
    its touchy, world war 3 maybe. but israel has the US backing it. and the us doesn't gain anything from israel.
    Israel is being given vast amounts of funding, by the US, to create the laser-based anti-ballistic missile system. The deal is that America is basically buying it, by funding it. Also, the Copperhead anti-tank missile system, and the armor that is in every American tank that only the Copperhead can easily defeat, were both developed by Israel. Furthermore, alot of American military technology comes from Israel. Communications gear, the new "tablet" computers that squad commanders use to direct troops, the shirts that have copper wiring in them and a computer, so when the shirt is penetrated by a bullet or shrapnel, it sets off an alarm that contacts the local HQ, giving 1) the penetrating obects size, 2) where the hit was, and 3) predicted damage that the bullet caused.

    Plus Israel invented the instant messenger system which is now done by companies like AOL and MSN.
    "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring" - Richard Feynman, last recorded words.

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    The way I see it as is neither side is right - both are wrong. The true heroes aren't the soldiers or commanders but the activists calling for a degrading of hostilities. Israel exists - in my mind, it should probably always exist - but there needs to be more concessions made by both sides. Saying Israel is wrong and/or evil is just like saying the Arabs are wrong and/or evil. In reality, both sides do bad things. Unfortunately, both sides can't seem to get along and this seems like it will last for ages.

    Though I am a man of peace and generally hate all wars, I am not sure how a situation like Iran having nuclear weapons should be handled. When Iraq last tried to get them, a pinprick surgical operation struck the Osirak nuclear facility - seemingly the correct choice - but it is always hard to say when you try to anyalze the ethics of the situation perfectly.

    I know peace isn't going to happen for a while (though I could be wrong) but I think someone for once over there has to stop escelating their forces and take a chance that they will be attacked or bombed or whatever - and do this action with not the intention of getting world opinion in your favour but because it is the right thing to do. The real tragedy is how many people have died in this long and torturous struggle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    But when people give me the sense that they believe that Israel does not have the right to exist, it touches a nerve for me.
    Where has anyone in this thread said or implied that Israel doesn't have the right to exist?

    "Israel has it coming to them" merely means - as you accept - Israel has done its share of bad things in the region that will get only one form of response from its opponents.

    The "terrorists" have it coming to them too.

    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    Yes, they have. I believe BBC to be a credible source, so here.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4378948.stm
    The BBC is not a credible source.

    Further more, I'm sure I have seen an interview with Ahmadinejad explaining that it was not ment in a literal sense.

    I'm not going to bother to try and find the source though.

    Besides, saying something, believeing something and doing something are all different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    However, England DID offer around half the land to be given to the Palestinians and Arabs.
    England did nothing.

    The British may have made that offer, but in the end they got tired of everyone blowing things up and left it to the UN to make the final divisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    I do not know much about the fighters flying over Iraq thing, and will read about that later.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...4/wiran124.xml

    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    As I do not know exactly who these scientists are
    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-2-2007_pg1_10

    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    I find this to be a cause worth fighting, peacefully, for.
    Quite.

    I doubt that an attack on Iran will do much to resolve the situation though.

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    Personally, I feel we just nuke everybody. Unfortunately after SALT I and SALT II, there ain't as much nukes left around anymore, but I still think that humanity has the capability of destroying all human life 32 times over. I will use the only unbiased source of information in the world - Wikipedia () - to verify this...
    Alack, I have not found it and am to lazy to delve further. Anyways, the forced-entire-world-explode option is the only way in hell that guarantees peace for the next couple million years.

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    I find it difficult to reconcile how Israel can be so offensive to the rest of the surrounding communities - through militaristic and political means - and then cry foul when others follow suit against them.

    every country has a right to defend themselves, and i can understand that Israel was given a particularly raw deal in regards to it's location - most of the surrounding area wants the country to disappear. but they do not help things by being so delibrately antagonistic.

    Syria risks conflict with the US if they go against Israel. but then the US faces conflict with the middle east (what a new concept!) and the new east. this will only end in tears.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CdocZ View Post
    The situation is not looking good....anyone have any thoughts?
    My thoughts: Israel has to stop shoving their noses in everyone's business. My friend Zach is Jewish and went to Israel twice or something, so I have to listen to him cry and complain about Israel's problems.

    I've gotten to the point of nearly hating Israel and their diplomatic policy.

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