New threats for Israel

[Rockefella]

Well, if America did not support Israel, I highly doubt America would be given the technology it so desperately wants from Israel.

I don't think America 'desperately wants' the technology from Israel.. sure, it helps, but it comes from heavy American funding. Most of the technology could be developed here in America anyway.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The problem is that extreme 5-10% get 50-70% of airtime on foreign news. both the Islamic fundamentalists and the Christian/Jewish groups.

the moderates who live in all countries, and who are more than willing to understand that the situation is causing more harm than good, are the one's worth listening to. but of course sane and rational thinking does not good primetime news make.

don't believe all that you see/hear, and only part of what you read.

[Kitdy]

I don't think America 'desperately wants' the technology from Israel.. sure, it helps, but it comes from heavy American funding. Most of the technology could be developed here in America anyway.

America is the technological leader of the world. And kinda Japan and Germany.

[kigango123]

I hope to god that last comment was sarcasm Kigango123.

nope, turns out that bush is a christian, big suprise, but a real stubborn headed christian and you know how damn stupid christians can be. but he keeps his religion and politics diffrent, if they are together it is to better his political stance and nothing else

[quattro_20v]

Sorry for offtopic, but why does he prefer the creation theory rather then the evolution theory in schools?
I think on schools the creation theory should be out of the picture as it is based on beliefs and not facts. That's the only thing I can mention, but there might be more.

[CdocZ]

I don't think America 'desperately wants' the technology from Israel.. sure, it helps, but it comes from heavy American funding. Most of the technology could be developed here in America anyway.

Well, ok, "desperate" is not the right word. But America still does buy various technologies from Israel. The Copperhead anti-tank missile and the armor that was related to it's production, America did not fund, same with the Israeli invented "copper shirt" idea. Various communications technologies America gets from Israel, it depends on what specific thing you look at. Various things were more or less an Israeli innovation based on telecommunications and GPS, which I believe America just "bought lessons" for on how to make them better than their own attempts.

[Matra et Alpine]

I find this hypocritical, as Israel has yet to make any military reaction towards Syria, and Syria is becoming "offensively defensive" towards Israel.

You should remember that Israel invaded land from neighbouring states without any prior statements.
So if I was any of them I'd be thinking the same is possible again in seeing ANY Israeli troop movements

Perhaps a starting point should be the unequivocal return of all lands and a return to the pre-67 borders.

PS: Re nuclear program....The Brits provided lots of materials and knowledge too. There was a major exposure a couple of years back and some of the info came out of the 30 year secrets act embargo. TUrns out lots of stuff shipped via a Norwegian company so Britain coudl plausibly deny supplying/assisting Israel !!

[CdocZ]

You should remember that Israel invaded land from neighbouring states without any prior statements.
So if I was any of them I'd be thinking the same is possible again in seeing ANY Israeli troop movements

Perhaps a starting point should be the unequivocal return of all lands and a return to the pre-67 borders.

PS: Re nuclear program....The Brits provided lots of materials and knowledge too. There was a major exposure a couple of years back and some of the info came out of the 30 year secrets act embargo. TUrns out lots of stuff shipped via a Norwegian company so Britain coudl plausibly deny supplying/assisting Israel !!

True. But we should also remember the most famous example of Israel invading other nations was the Six Day War - it was started, when Israel decided on a pre-emptive strike as Egypt was becoming a rather....aggressive neighbor. The rest of the war ensued when Jordon, among others, couner-attacked.

I'll just put it out there - without any guided weapons or anything, Israel wiped out virtually the entire Egyptian Air Force and a huge amount of all the air base's functional capabilities out, in a single day. Impressive!

EDIT: The primary reason Israel struck the Egyptian Air Force, was because their Air Force had the latest Soviet technology, and vastly outpowered and outnumbered what the Israeli Air Force was capable of stopping. If Israel let the Egyptian Air Force live.....and eventually strike Israel.....Israel's survival was in trouble.

[speednine]

You should remember that Israel invaded land from neighbouring states without any prior statements.
So if I was any of them I'd be thinking the same is possible again in seeing ANY Israeli troop movements

Perhaps a starting point should be the unequivocal return of all lands and a return to the pre-67 borders.

PS: Re nuclear program....The Brits provided lots of materials and knowledge too. There was a major exposure a couple of years back and some of the info came out of the 30 year secrets act embargo. TUrns out lots of stuff shipped via a Norwegian company so Britain coudl plausibly deny supplying/assisting Israel !!

You've changed your story more times then O.J. simpson.

Atleast tell me this, are you actually jewish or just a convert through beleifs?

Because, it seems most everyone in this thread, with possibly teh exception of a few(YOU) has a neutral standpoint on the situation and thinks israel is just at fault as syria or whatever other muslim country they are pissing off next is attacking them. The whole "feel sorry for the jews because they ahve been through a lot" mentallity is getting old really fast....

[clutch-monkey]

my theory is america loves israel because israel does what america wishes it could do.

on the other hand, i may just be full of shit.

[Matra et Alpine]

True. But we should also remember the most famous example of Israel invading other nations was the Six Day War

Not "also remember" -- it was the "Six day war" in 1967 that I was referring to.

- it was started, when Israel decided on a pre-emptive strike as Egypt was becoming a rather....aggressive neighbor. The rest of the war ensued when Jordon, among others, couner-attacked.

Isn't the hypocrisy jumping out at you ?
Why shoulnd't every other country surrounding Israel use those same reasons as justification ?

I'll just put it out there - without any guided weapons or anything, Israel wiped out virtually the entire Egyptian Air Force and a huge amount of all the air base's functional capabilities out, in a single day. Impressive!

Not really.
That's why modern generals prefer pre-emptive strikes.
Cath the opponent off-guard and unabel to deply their defences.
Just liek Pearl Harbour -- 'cept Japan didn't actually have the heart to totally devestate and pulled back other forces.

If Israel let the Egyptian Air Force live.....and eventually strike Israel.....Israel's survival was in trouble.

oh dear.,
Replace Israel with Lebanon ( or Syria or Irawq or Iran or .. ) and Egyption Air Force with Israel.
THAT is the issue that will forever haunt Israel for as long as war-mongers control the government.

[Blue Supra]

i still say jus turn eveerything into glass and let whats left take care of itself. much chesper\eqasier in the long run@!

[KeepIt]

hahaha......your not a dipolmat are you?

[CdocZ]

Isn't the hypocrisy jumping out at you ?
Why shoulnd't every other country surrounding Israel use those same reasons as justification ?

Egypt was creating naval blockades, in places Israel and other countries used as shipping routes. The Japanese attacked America on the reason that they were slowly being strangled - Israel just was a little less patient on the issue of being economically strangled But also, Israel didn't have the same built up structure beforehand to try to live off until new industries could be opened up enough. To give even more detail, ALOT of Israel's tourism is focused on the beach's and waterfronts. Which is where the Egyptian navy was.

Not really.
That's why modern generals prefer pre-emptive strikes.
Cath the opponent off-guard and unabel to deply their defences.
Just liek Pearl Harbour -- 'cept Japan didn't actually have the heart to totally devestate and pulled back other forces.

Israel lives off of some technology enterprises, and tourism. When your southern ports are being closed off, and tourists are being intimidated by the Egyptian warships out in the waters.....Once again, Israel was in the same position as Japan. Japan did not attack America simply cause they wanted to destroy America - otherwise they would have been more alright with destroying the rest of Pearl Harbor. Israel didn't obliterate half of Egypt - just the air force because that was the primary threat that was imposing upon them the most at that moment.

oh dear.,
Replace Israel with Lebanon ( or Syria or Irawq or Iran or .. ) and Egyption Air Force with Israel.
THAT is the issue that will forever haunt Israel for as long as war-mongers control the government.

Once again, the Egyptian naval blockades around the Sinai and the south of Israel were not exactly healthy for the Israeli economy, forgetting that it is a tactical and strategic threat, militarily speaking.

More info:
Before Israel actually went on the offensive, Arab armies started moving towards Israel. These included primarily the Egyptian military, buffered by the addition of the Jordanian army. Also closing in on the Israeli borders were the military powers of Iraq, Alrgeria, Kuwait, Lebanon, Syria and Sudan. This was in May. Israel attacked, in June.

Furthermore, Israel had recieved intelligence on ~May 26th, that Egypt and Syria were going to attack within 48 hours. This was also found out by the USSR, which caused the delay - the USSR said they would not support Egypt, if Egypt started the war (understandable logic, considering the Soviet situation. The Soviets had signed something that made the Straits of Tiran, which Egypt wanted to/did block, an international zone.).

Egypt had ~100,000 soldiers ready for combat in the Sinai, with nearly a thousand tanks and as much artillery. Jordan and Syria also had several dozen thousands of troops. This was a hell of alot of firepower, considering the number of veterans and support. In that support were ~450 fighter planes, alot of them Soviet materials, well maintained and decently new. Israel had, including its reservist forces (which are basically the phsyically capable civilians) had 70,000 men available to pit against Egypt, and ~200 fighter planes that were what they could scrounge for, as they could not afford much even if they could find someone who was willing to sell (America sold, but not in overtly high numbers initially).

The fight with Egypt was a model for the other fights in the Six Day War - Israel was outnumbered on all fronts, yet not vastly so except in air firepower. Random stuff you find vs. new Soviet Tu-16's is not exactly a fair fight.

I don't think Israel was just being trigger happy, considering 1) the intelligence reports, 2) the naval blockades of the Sinai and the Tiran, and 3) the mass troop concentrations that outnumbered them on virtually every front.

[The_Canuck]

Not "also remember" -- it was the "Six day war" in 1967 that I was referring to.
.

Are you referring to Suez? That was '57 and the Brits and French asked them too...

If not, ignore this crap post...