Iran Nuke POLL Edition

[Coventrysucks]

When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and bring America to its knees, I believe him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...jad_and_Israel

Realise that there are always two sides to a story.

It must be very demoralising for Iranian people to see themselves constantly portrayed as violent savages bent on genocide by "Western" governments and media.

Even if Ahmadinejad does bear such ill-will towards Israel and the West, what percentage of the Iranian population support that notion?

It seems the propaganda has succeeded once more.

[nota]

^^ Another dissection from here

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle16218.htm

THE ACTUAL QUOTE:

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi: "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel".

THE PROOF:

The full quote translated directly to English:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Here is the full transcript of the speech in farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site
http://www.president.ir/farsi/ahmadi...4sahyonizm.htm

[MRR]

They will use it to bargain like N. Korea did (I doubt they will give into sanctions unless they were completely crippling which wont happen) or use it to threaten Israel.

[The_Canuck]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...jad_and_Israel

Realise that there are always two sides to a story.

It must be very demoralising for Iranian people to see themselves constantly portrayed as violent savages bent on genocide by "Western" governments and media.

Even if Ahmadinejad does bear such ill-will towards Israel and the West, what percentage of the Iranian population support that notion?

It seems the propaganda has succeeded once more.

^^ Another dissection from here

Yes because:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

shows no aggresion towards Israel what so ever

[MadMax13]

Even though i think the US, most DEFINATELY Israel, will strike any nuclear facility i stand behind Iran on its right to manufacture nukes...

[aiasib]

this is very interesting so far, the majority think this will end in a military strike. perhaps i should have specified two different options for 'strike by america', and 'strike by israel', because the they could play into very different scenarios. for example, i think an israeli strike would start a war, but i don't think an amerian strike would. then again and oddly enough, i think an american strike is a lot less likely than an israeli strike

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Actually the French sold the secrets to Israel and also to Iraq. The Israelis were smart enough to bomb Iraq's reactor in 1981. Bush should invade France next to win the war on terror.


When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and bring America to its knees, I believe him. Please dont forget that even if Iran cannot make its own nuke it is only one airplane flight away from obtaining a North Korean one.

In my opinion, Tel Aviv is the most likely target.

No doubt bush already has drawings made up in regards to an invasion of france - it'll be normandy all over again

How is bombing so-preemptively (and, i might add, against america's wishes - they were friends with Iraq way back when) intelligent? that particular reactor has still yet to be proven to be manufacturing anything but power.

North Korea doesn't have nuclear bombs - they have poorly built missile dummies. all analysts believe so. their "bomb" was so unbelievably weak it was thought to have been a dud. they have little to gain from selling to Iran - especially when Iran can make it's own nuclear technology.

What springs Tel Aviv to mind? what research have you done to support this?

[Lagonda]

Ahmadinejad is going to suffer big losses in the next elections. I don't think he's going to be re-elected seeing that he's pretty unpopular in Iran. After that they'll probably calm down.

[jcp123]

Frankly, I don't trust anything Ahmadinejad does. After all, he denies the holocaust and is always spewing strange and quite hateful statements. The nuke program may or may not be legit, but in a country with that much oil, it's hard to believe they need a nuke program for electricity, and it would be folly to trust a guy like that. I wouldn't trust him with the time of day.

[Jack_Bauer]

The US has reportedly put plans in place to begin tactical airstrikes against Iran beginning as early as next weekend. That's according to, erm, some Russian intelligence blokey...

Operation Bite: April 6 sneak attack by US forces against Iran planned, Russian military sources warn

WASHINGTON DC, -- The long awaited US military attack on Iran is now on track for the first week of April, specifically for 4 am on April 6, the Good Friday opening of Easter weekend, writes the well-known Russian journalist Andrei Uglanov in the Moscow weekly “Argumenty Nedeli.” Uglanov cites Russian military experts close to the Russian General Staff for his account.

The attack is slated to last for 12 hours, according to Uglanov, from 4 am until 4 pm local time. Friday is the sabbath in Iran. In the course of the attack, code named Operation Bite, about 20 targets are marked for bombing; the list includes uranium enrichment facilities, research centers, and laboratories.

The first reactor at the Bushehr nuclear plant, where Russian engineers are working, is supposed to be spared from destruction. The US attack plan reportedly calls for the Iranian air defense system to be degraded, for numerous Iranian warships to be sunk in the Persian Gulf, and for the most important headquarters of the Iranian armed forces to be wiped out.

The attacks will be mounted from a number of bases, including the island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. Diego Garcia is currently home to B-52 bombers equipped with standoff missiles. Also participating in the air strikes will be US naval aviation from aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf, as well as from those of the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean. Additional cruise missiles will be fired from submarines in the Indian Ocean and off the coast of the Arabian peninsula. The goal is allegedly to set back Iran’s nuclear program by several years, writes Uglanov, whose article was reissued by RIA-Novosti in various languages, but apparently not English, several days ago. The story is the top item on numerous Italian and German blogs, but so far appears to have been ignored by US websites.

Observers comment that this dispatch represents a high-level orchestrated leak from the Kremlin, in effect a war warning, which draws on the formidable resources of the Russian intelligence services, and which deserves to be taken with the utmost seriousness by pro-peace forces around the world.

Asked by RIA-Novosti to comment on the Uglanov report, retired Colonel General Leonid Ivashov confirmed its essential features in a March 21 interview: “I have no doubt that there will be an operation, or more precisely a violent action against Iran.” Ivashov, who has reportedly served at various times as an informal advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin, is currently the vice president of the Moscow Academy for Geopolitical Sciences.

Ivashov attributed decisive importance to the decision of the Democratic leadership of the US House of Representatives to remove language from the just-passed Iraq supplemental military appropriations bill that would have demanded that Bush come to Congress before launching an attack on Iran. Ivashov pointed out that the language was eliminated under pressure from AIPAC, the lobbing group representing the Israeli extreme right, and from Israeli Foreign Minister Tsipi Livni.

“We have drawn the unmistakable conclusion that this operation will take place,” said Ivashov. In his opinion, the US planning does not include a land operation: “ Most probably there will be no ground attack, but rather massive air attacks with the goal of annihilating Iran’s capacity for military resistance, the centers of administration, the key economic assets, and quite possibly the Iranian political leadership, or at least part of it,” he continued.

Ivashov noted that it was not to be excluded that the Pentagon would use smaller tactical nuclear weapons against targets of the Iranian nuclear industry. These attacks could paralyze everyday life, create panic in the population, and generally produce an atmosphere of chaos and uncertainty all over Iran, Ivashov told RIA-Novosti. “This will unleash a struggle for power inside Iran, and then there will be a peace delegation sent in to install a pro-American government in Teheran,” Ivashov continued. One of the US goals was, in his estimation, to burnish the image of the current Republican administration, which would now be able to boast that they had wiped out the Iranian nuclear program.

Among the other outcomes, General Ivashov pointed to a partition of Iran along the same lines as Iraq, and a subsequent carving up of the Near and Middle East into smaller regions. “This concept worked well for them in the Balkans and will now be applied to the greater Middle East,” he commented.

“Moscow must exert Russia’s influence by demanding an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to deal with the current preparations for an illegal use of force against Iran and the destruction of the basis of the United Nations Charter,” said General Ivashov. “In this context Russia could cooperate with China, France and the non-permanent members of the Security Council. We need this kind of preventive action to ward off the use of force,” he concluded.

Resources:

http://fr.rian.ru/world/20070319/62260006.html

http://fr.rian.ru/world/20070321/62387717.html

Sauce - http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...tml&frame=true

Hopefully this is just wild rumour and scaremongering.

[Pando]

Hopefully this is just wild rumour and scaremongering.

I'm fairly convinced that's what it is. Interesting if it isn't though.

[Equinox]

I really don't think it's a good idea for Bush or other countries to be threatning Iran. Since they are developing Nuclear technology. If Bush keeps saying stuff, obviously Ahmadinejad will develop weapons if Bush keeps saying he'll attck Iran.

I say, just leave them alone and see where he takes his program. Because saying you'll invade, if he does not stop what he is doing, is not a very bright idea. No wonder the U.S has so many enemies. If someone threatened you. You would eventually want to shut them up to.

[speednine]

I really don't think it's a good idea for Bush or other countries to be threatning Iran. Since they are developing Nuclear technology. If Bush keeps saying stuff, obviously Ahmadinejad will develop weapons if Bush keeps saying he'll attck Iran.

I say, just leave them alone and see where he takes his program. Because saying you'll invade, if he does not stop what he is doing, is not a very bright idea. No wonder the U.S has so many enemies. If someone threatened you. You would eventually want to shut them up to.

Good logic. You know what, the hell with the law against letting felons and convicted murderer's buy guns, we should just give them to them for free also!!!

Hell, here's a novel idea, why not, instead of letting iran develop nuclear technology, we just give them ours so they can sell it to terrorists and other countries who hate the west....

[Pando]

Good logic. You know what, the hell with the law against letting felons and convicted murderer's buy guns, we should just give them to them for free also!!!

What did that have to do with anything. For it to make sense you'd have to add that the government would threaten criminals and say they will be shot if they consider arming themselves.

Also if not being a convicted criminal would be good enough to get someone a gun in my country some alarms would go off for me personally.

[nota]

Hell, here's a novel idea, why not, instead of letting iran develop nuclear technology, we just give them ours so they can sell it to terrorists and other countries who hate the west....

How is that idea novel? Too late because the Republican Party beat you to it years ago

"President Gerald Ford signed a directive in 1976 offering Tehran the chance to buy and operate a U.S.-built reprocessing facility for extracting plutonium from nuclear reactor fuel. The deal was for a complete 'nuclear fuel cycle'." At the time, Richard Cheney was the White House Chief of Staff, and Donald Rumsfeld was the Secretary of Defense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear...n_in_the_1970s