Single turbo setup?

[h00t_h00t]

Well this car doesn't look like its got room for 100mm of movement, nevermind the addition of a trubo and 8 miles of pipework.

http://www.akgmotorsport.com/e36v12.html

[hightower99]

Well this car doesn't look like its got room for 100mm of movement, nevermind the addition of a trubo and 8 miles of pipework.

http://www.akgmotorsport.com/e36v12.html

Did I say that I could mount the engine 100mm back without doing any work?

I am planning on remaking most of the firewall, bulkhead, and transmission tunnel so that I can mount the engine 100-120mm further back in the car. This means that there will be less room in the cabin but I intend to mount the front seats (I will not keep the back seats) 100-120mm back aswell so the the gear stick is in the stock position in relation to the seat when I am finished.

[gregvl52]

Here is a single turbo V8, on a Champ Car... but really, with all the trouble you're going to, and as much as all the other stuff you're doing is going to cost, I agree that you should just do twin turbos.

[kigango123]

Yes..

OMG

it would take twenty minutes to get it up to speed, on full throttle

[rev440]

What turbo are you gonna use and that are the specs?

OMG

it would take twenty minutes to get it up to speed, on full throttle

Thats a small turbo on a supra or a skyline!

[hightower99]

Here is a single turbo V8, on a Champ Car... but really, with all the trouble you're going to, and as much as all the other stuff you're doing is going to cost, I agree that you should just do twin turbos.

Actually I am starting to like the idea of an M70 V12 with a single GT4088R on it. Thing is that with this setup 750+ HP should be achievable (I have most of the parts already). With a twin turbo setup if I want to mount them beside the engine and low (i.e lower than the cylinder heads) then the biggest I can go is around a GT25R on each bank, which would mean anything above 500hp would be a struggle. That and the intake side of a twin turbo system is much much more complicated. Technically I could mount the turbos high (higher than the cyinder heads) and put something bigger in like a GT28RS or maybe even a GT25/40R (on each bank) to get the same sort of power potential but then the exhaust side is just as complicated (and control more so) then a single turbo setup and still has a complicated intake side.

I think I will see what I can do with the single.

and hey... all the money i save for not making it twinturbo (around 22000DK or 4 grand USD) will go to a nice suspension upgrade.

[Matra et Alpine]

What are you going to use to design the gas flow for a 12 to one for a single turbo ? Remember you are going to want to spread the timing of the exhaust pulses to the turbo to optimise the charge and to avoid high back pulses to single cylinders.

[P4g4nite]

and hey... all the money i save for not making it twinturbo (around 22000DK or 4 grand USD) will go to a nice suspension upgrade.

I seriously don't think you should go the cheap route when building a turbo V12.

Buy 2 turbos. The engine itself is going to be a tight fit in the E36 bay without the ridiculous amount of piping needed to get a big single plumbed.

[h00t_h00t]

So I was just looking at the V12 BMW again, and I noticed the bonnet... Does it look stretched to anyone else?

[kingofthering]

Did I say that I could mount the engine 100mm back without doing any work?

I am planning on remaking most of the firewall, bulkhead, and transmission tunnel so that I can mount the engine 100-120mm further back in the car. This means that there will be less room in the cabin but I intend to mount the front seats (I will not keep the back seats) 100-120mm back aswell so the the gear stick is in the stock position in relation to the seat when I am finished.

Are you sure this won't affect the structure of the car? All this cutting will end up weakening the car unless you plan on adding a rollcage or some kind of brace.

You could just go and build a Locost with the V12, but it won't be very safe.

[hightower99]

What are you going to use to design the gas flow for a 12 to one for a single turbo ? Remember you are going to want to spread the timing of the exhaust pulses to the turbo to optimise the charge and to avoid high back pulses to single cylinders.

I am not building an Uber factory install. The exhaust will be as simple as possible, the turbo has a divided turbine so each bank will be plumbed to it's own entry. The header part will be designed to draw the exhaust away from the ports while maintaining vital velocity. So to answer your question I will just use my common sense.

I seriously don't think you should go the cheap route when building a turbo V12.

Buy 2 turbos. The engine itself is going to be a tight fit in the E36 bay without the ridiculous amount of piping needed to get a big single plumbed.

1 turbo is going to be easier to fit than 2.

Hoot-hoot: No the hood doesn't look stretched.

Are you sure this won't affect the structure of the car? All this cutting will end up weakening the car unless you plan on adding a rollcage or some kind of brace.

You could just go and build a Locost with the V12, but it won't be very safe.

It would if I didn't reinforce it. But I do intend to build a full 12 point roll cage and I intend to do extensive welding and bracing to make the entire structure much stronger than original.

[Matra et Alpine]

I will just use my common sense.
...............
1 turbo is going to be easier to fit than 2.

hmmm .....

ah well good luck. Remember and post pics when you get it "done".

[jediali]

i'd like to see pics of what you currently have. I wish i had the common sense to achieve what you are doing!

[McReis]

Matra: why the generalisation? I am sure that there is a way to get a single turbo to work on a V12 without suffering "horrendous losses"...

They didn't found a way but I'm sure you will.

It is going to go into a E36 chassic 3-series. Possibly an M3. The major problem with ICs is space, so I am hoping that a refridgerator style IC will be more compact.

Where are you going to find an M3 base? How much will it cost? In the end it would be cheaper, nicer and faster to drive a standard E36 M3, you know?

Did I say that I could mount the engine 100mm back without doing any work?

I am planning on remaking most of the firewall, bulkhead, and transmission tunnel so that I can mount the engine 100-120mm further back in the car. This means that there will be less room in the cabin but I intend to mount the front seats (I will not keep the back seats) 100-120mm back aswell so the the gear stick is in the stock position in relation to the seat when I am finished.

What will be the purpose of this car? Racing or showing off?
Certainly not road use, since it will loose it's interior.

Actually I am starting to like the idea of an M70 V12 with a single GT4088R on it. Thing is that with this setup 750+ HP should be achievable.

How? How did you came up with those numbers? Is that without changing the internals of the engine?

and hey... all the money i save for not making it twinturbo (around 22000DK or 4 grand USD) will go to a nice suspension upgrade.

You don't need it. The car won't corner nicely anyway. It will be always an heavy car and with a fragilized chassis.

I am not building an Uber factory install. The exhaust will be as simple as possible (...) I will just use my common sense.

There's no way to make this things simple. You will learn that the hard way.
Common sense as nothing to do with mechanical issues.

[hightower99]

hmmm .....

ah well good luck. Remember and post pics when you get it "done".

When I start the project (in 5-6 months time) the first thing I am going to buy is a digital camera!

i'd like to see pics of what you currently have. I wish i had the common sense to achieve what you are doing!

I intend to make a new thread in 5-6 months time to follow the project with lots of pictures.

Where are you going to find an M3 base? How much will it cost? In the end it would be cheaper, nicer and faster to drive a standard E36 M3, you know?

There are many for sale here in denmark and in germany. I plan on picking one up here in denmark that hasn't paid registration yet for around 50000DK (around 9 grand USD). cheaper yes, nicer and faster most definately not! how did you come to that conclusion?

What will be the purpose of this car? Racing or showing off?
Certainly not road use, since it will loose it's interior.

It will show up at several shows and meets here in denmark and I will also use it for abit of racing. However it will be street legal and I do intend to drive it around occasionally.

How? How did you came up with those numbers? Is that without changing the internals of the engine?

Well the turbo can provide up to 800HP worth of air and with upgraded internals and fuel system the engine itself will be able to support it. I am still looking into liquid to air ICs and water/alcohol injection systems aswell.

You don't need it. The car won't corner nicely anyway. It will be always an heavy car and with a fragilized chassis.

How did you come to that conclusion? the E36 M3 is famous for great handling and a relatively stiff chassis (I know the frount suspension mounts need lots of work) How will it be heavy? the total engine package shouldn't weigh that much more than the original engine if it was also turbocharged and I am stripping the car down to the structural componants. It will not be fragile either with full roll cage, several braces and rewelding work. The car will handle quite well when I am finished with it.

There's no way to make this things simple. You will learn that the hard way.
Common sense as nothing to do with mechanical issues.

Did I say that the project would be simple? No I said I would make the exhaust as simple as possible. Mind you even when I say simple it will probably be relatively complex in the end.

EDIT: I just realised that if I use a single turbo then if the engine ever defaults to "limp home" mode (where it runs using only one bank of cylinders) that the turbo will hamper the engine. I guess I will just have to keep it from defaulting...