Editing in the Photo Competitions

[Cotterik]

kk lets have the people who never enter the comps decide what the rules are kthxbye

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

first of all, quit making this a personal argument and telling me to 'grow up' and stop 'throwing tantrums' this is a debate. If you can't hack that without getting personal then go find somewhere else to waste your time.

This started off as an amateur competition but there are so many good photographers on the site now that the competition needs to evolve. We can't let camera phones and beginner photographers weigh down everyone else. As wouter said, every photograph that enthusiasts take are put through photoshop before they are used. I already know that Black_300ZX, SPHferrari, My_Porsche, Drakkie (all well known photographers on the forum) use photoshop as an every day treatment for their photographs. But all of these members, including myself, have and will use un-treated photos. But the fact is that the main bulk of our work is done using photoshop. Alot of my photos that I am proud of, having done for college, can't be entered even though they used the most minimal editing techniques.

The side-heavy view on the poll is quite predictably due to non-enthusiast members who have a strong opinion about not letting everyone else use photoshop, even when most frequent entrants only use it for the slightest of touches.

I think that alot of members arent up for the professional-touch that photoshop can apply to photographs, because they don't know enough about photography. Fair enough. And ofcourse this isnt a photography-devoted forum so there always will be members new to photography who want to enter. But that still does not cancel out option 2 of the poll which states that slight touches can be made in photoshop. I keep saying this over and over again. Minimal editing cannot make a bad photo good.

To all of that, I say bullshit.

If your photo cannot hack it without editing, then don't post it into the competition. Simple as that. It's really not that difficult.

And how are you being 'weighed down' by 'new' entrants and camera phones? Surely they emphasise how much better your own photo is. I know that I've been caught short without my P&S camera (oops, does that exclude me from future photo competitions? ) and I've had to use my phone, with more than acceptable results.

And, if you need 'minimal' editing techniques, surely without those 'minimal' changes, the photo will be largely the same anyway? So you don't actually need to edit it.

[Wouter Melissen]

kk lets have the people who never enter the comps decide what the rules are kthxbye

Yep, this means I can never enter a shot again.

[Rockefella]

kk lets have the people who never enter the comps decide what the rules are kthxbye

I entered once, or maybe it was twice.. and I tied for second if that was referring to me.

[Wouter Melissen]

I still don't get why this poll is here in the first place. Wasn't it the problem that some people did not take the rules we decided on very seriously? Now it seems the rules themselves were the problem.

[Cotterik]

I entered once, or maybe it was twice.. and I tied for second if that was referring to me.

Not particularly. Its just that the majority vote is down to members who I can't say have ever entered. Or not very often atleast.

To all of that, I say bullshit.

If your photo cannot hack it without editing, then don't post it into the competition. Simple as that. It's really not that difficult.

And how are you being 'weighed down' by 'new' entrants and camera phones? Surely they emphasise how much better your own photo is. I know that I've been caught short without my P&S camera (oops, does that exclude me from future photo competitions? ) and I've had to use my phone, with more than acceptable results.

And, if you need 'minimal' editing techniques, surely without those 'minimal' changes, the photo will be largely the same anyway? So you don't actually need to edit it.

It's not about that atall. Its about getting your work reckognised and showing people. Its not about 'not hacking it'. To say that a photo needs to be thebestassoonasitstakenorelseitsshit is a pathetic thing to say given the process that all enthusiast photographers on this site use to treat their work. For the beginner photographer, the photo will have to stay the same once its taken off the camera. Because they aren't familiar with the editing process. But if a real photographer was here and saw you dismissing the endless hours of work spent after a photo collection is taken, then they would think this is preposterous. I for one would agree with them. Its part of the art of digital photography. And i dont know why I have to keep saying this, but a good photo can beat an edited photo. But for the main part, editing is an art. But 99.9% of the art is taking the photo. You cant change what it is once its taken. Therefore its not cheating. And ofcourse 'minimal' changes would make the photo largely the same anyway, and thats the point here. The shot isnt being changed. Sometimes I take photos knowing that later on I'll apply a certain filter or lighting effect which gave brilliant results. But if the photo was bad to start with, it wouldnt make it good by minimal editing.

[drakkie]

I still don't get why this poll is here in the first place. Wasn't it the problem that some people did not take the rules we decided on very seriously? Now it seems the rules themselves were the problem.

Well long ago I copied almost all the rules from the Automotive competition, then run by Rebirth of Xar (pity he left). That's basically how these rules were made. Not something "we" decided upon.

[Piacki_117]

I agree 100% with Cotterik.

And I'd like to point out something : if editing happened to be fully forbidden, it will inevitably lead to an increase of the differences between JPEG and RAW, that is to say P&S and DSLR owners...

[Pinin]

Ansel Adams is not taking part in a UCP photo comp.

Oh crap, thanks for the info! And thanks for totally missing the point.

On several occasions.

[paul]

Ha Ha this banter is quite amusing...

can we not just keep the original rules and actually ban people when they break them...?

[Ingolstadt]

So.... allow edit to up the ante? or a P&S general photo comp, and a DSLR expert photo comp?

I would like to see how the experts can "bring-it-on" and amaze the rest of photography noobs like me.

by the way, I'll agree with whatever Piackki agrees as i liked his photos.

[derekthetree]

this is all amateurish opinion. what good is this for the progression of the competition

maybe the progression of the competition should be, as mentioned before, a new editing competition.

or is everyone worried that it'll lose the kudos of UCP's only photo comp??

[SPHFerrari]

i think any editing that does not change the content of the photo should be allowed. why tie people down? this isnt a serious competition, why not let people run wild? the point on not allowing ALL editing should only be there to stop people from creating a scene that wasn't actually there, i.e. adding a better sky or taking out a telephone pole. think about it like this, what would stand in a journalistic application? if you do something like put together two photos of a soldier and a little child because one photo has a better shot of the soldier and the other a better shot of the child, like one photographer did and lost his career over, it will not be accepted as truth. likewise if you add a dramatic sky that wasnt there. but if you dodge to bring out your subjects eyes more, or you need to increase contrast to get the look you want, or you need to take out some dust spots, who does that hurt?

i think this competition should be a forum in which to share what you can do given what you have at hand. this means that some poeple will have advanced DSLRs and some will have camera phones; some will have dramatic, sweeping vistas, and some will have urban slums, and others will have their own backyards; some will have photoshop and others will adjust the settings on their camera and some will just upload it straight up. who cares?

in my humble opinion, the rule should be:
Changing the content of the image in photoshop is not allowed.

The rule should not list what you can do, it should list only what you cannot do, and what i stated above is the only thing you shouldnt.

[The_Canuck]

But then theres arguements as to what "changing the content" is.

[my porsche]

I already know that Black_300ZX, SPHferrari, My_Porsche, Drakkie (all well known photographers on the forum) use photoshop as an every day treatment for their photographs.

I'll admit to it, but it's fully within the rules. Like wouter said I have my camera processing set to almost none, so i usually just boost contrast a little bit, crop it, resize and save.

where it gets into gray area is when you have people like drakkie who have cheated several times, and even this week (and I'm surprised even Drakkie could be this stupid) posting a screen shot of his editing program where the picture he is working on in it is the same he's entered but the color has obviously been changed. Then it becomes a sort of honor system thing that most people fail.

Here's an example. If I were to enter this into a competition, what would people say?