Big Brother UK

[IBrake4Rainbows]

You've not done yourself any favours with that last post.

1) You know just as much about Charley as CovSucks. IE; very, very little. a short bio on the BB website and 5 minutes of google does not a person decipher.
2) You most certainly know nothing of what she knows. including what her beliefs are RE race and prejudices. Living in SE london you'd expect her to be at least slightly familiar with rap culture.
3) you did call him an 11 year old girl.
4)The terminology of using the word "nigger" in such company. she knew nothing of how they would react and in fact should have had the good sense to recognise that it's a hugely offensive term and not to use it. ever.
5) i understand you have a better understanding of Rap culture etc than i do because of your taste in music and who you idolise, but i fail to see in what, if any, context it's cool for a white person to call a black person "nigger".
6) I'd hardly call someone who's on Big Brother a "Celebrity".
7) be VERY careful what you wish for in regards to who you pick battles with. because i guarantee you will lose, if you choose to battle Cov.

Friendly warning

[adrenaline]

You've not done yourself any favours with that last post.

1) You know just as much about Charley as CovSucks. IE; very, very little. a short bio on the BB website and 5 minutes of google does not a person decipher.
2) You most certainly know nothing of what she knows. including what her beliefs are RE race and prejudices. Living in SE london you'd expect her to be at least slightly familiar with rap culture.
3) you did call him an 11 year old girl.
4)The terminology of using the word "nigger" in such company. she knew nothing of how they would react and in fact should have had the good sense to recognise that it's a hugely offensive term and not to use it. ever.
5) i understand you have a better understanding of Rap culture etc than i do because of your taste in music and who you idolise, but i fail to see in what, if any, context it's cool for a white person to call a black person "nigger".
6) I'd hardly call someone who's on Big Brother a "Celebrity".
7) be VERY careful what you wish for in regards to who you pick battles with. because i guarantee you will lose, if you choose to battle Cov.

Friendly warning

That's nice of you to come to come to his rescue, however I strongly stand by everything I have said. It's my opinion and anyone who wants to force a change in it can go to hell.

1. A 'short' bio actually says a lot about her - she has a keen interest in celebrities and clubbing, so of course she would be aware of the 'nigger' phenomenon. Coverntrysucks doesn't know any more than I do, which is quite ironic.

2. Her 'useless' bio states that she is strongly against racism. So her response wasn't out of shock, it was out of disagreement - Which is my whole argument before coventrysucks turned it into a completely different situation.

3. Quote me directly calling him an 11 year old girl. There is a difference between:

• Comparing his RESPONSE to that of an 11 year old

and

• Calling HIM an 11 year old

4. It obviously slipped out of her mouth and the reaction she got (including being kicked out of the house) was too much for a simple mistake which I'm sure she apologised for anyway.

5. In general, whilst having no serious moral problem with it, I strongly oppose white people calling black people niggers, but for reasons OTHER than racism. When it's compared to racism, as long as the person wasn't trying to be racist then at most it's offensive. Racism is a completely different situation.

6. I would - at least whilst the show is running.

7. We clearly have different opinions of his arguing skills. Because so far, he hasn't given me reason to believe he is any good at it.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

That's nice of you to come to come to his rescue, however I strongly stand by everything I have said. It's my opinion and anyone who wants to force a change in it can go to hell.

I'm defending my own beliefs on this issue as much as his. good on you for believing what you will, and indeed you've pointed out the point of debating is to defend your own position. you've just, IMHO, not been doing a good job.

1. A 'short' bio actually says a lot about her - she has a keen interest in celebrities and clubbing, so of course she would be aware of the 'nigger' phenomenon. Coverntrysucks doesn't know any more than I do, which is quite ironic.

If she was so aware why did she do it? you're contradicting yourself.

the cult of Celebrity most likely means she reads "Hello!" or some other garbage.

2. Her 'useless' bio states that she is strongly against racism. So her response wasn't out of shock, it was out of disagreement - Which is my whole argument before coventrysucks turned it into a completely different situation.

If she's so against racism she'd know the huge negative connotations of her comments. and more than likely would not have even said them.

again, a contradiction.

3. Quote me directly calling him an 11 year old girl. There is a difference between:

• Comparing his RESPONSE to that of an 11 year old

and

• Calling HIM an 11 year old

you asked him directly if he was an 11 year old girl, because of his response.

the words "hoist" and "petard" come to mind

4. It obviously slipped out of her mouth and the reaction she got (including being kicked out of the house) was too much for a simple mistake which I'm sure she apologised for anyway.

She in fact asked why people were making such a big deal out of it - indicating she did not believe it was a big deal. being kicked out of the house is a big deal and in my opinion perhaps an overstatement, but racism is not acceptable.

5. In general, whilst having no serious moral problem with it, I strongly oppose white people calling black people niggers, but for reasons OTHER than racism. When it's compared to racism, as long as the person wasn't trying to be racist then at most it's offensive. Racism is a completely different situation.


The difference between racism and....you know what. i cannot pick a single, SINGLE reason why it's even acceptable for a black person to call another black person nigger. i get the whole "empowerment" thing but it's just offensive.

6. I would - at least whilst the show is running.

I wouldn't. full stop. the cult of celebrity is not something i delve into.

7. We clearly have different opinions of his arguing skills. Because so far, he hasn't given me reason to believe he is any good at it.

and you've not given me a reason why you have such faith in your own skills.

Big Brother is, to me, one of those vanity shows where self-important nobodies decide to go to show off their own vane selfs to what is essentially a mirrored house, in the hope that, when the adoring public boots their sorry asses out of la-la land and onto some stage where this fake adoration of teenage girls with more credit on their mobile phone than sense kicks in.

Producers of such shows love moments like this because it gets people talking about one of the most boring shows on television. ever. in fact shows like this thrive on scandal and controversy. They make scandal if it's boring - like intruders or surprise evictions.....it's just retarded.

there, i feel better

[adrenaline]

and you've not given me a reason why you have such faith in your own skills.

Big Brother is, to me, one of those vanity shows where self-important nobodies decide to go to show off their own vane selfs to what is essentially a mirrored house, in the hope that, when the adoring public boots their sorry asses out of la-la land and onto some stage where this fake adoration of teenage girls with more credit on their mobile phone than sense kicks in.

Producers of such shows love moments like this because it gets people talking about one of the most boring shows on television. ever. in fact shows like this thrive on scandal and controversy. They make scandal if it's boring - like intruders or surprise evictions.....it's just retarded.

there, i feel better

Oh dear.

I am talking about the black woman, NOT the white woman.

• The fact that you didn't know this makes your posts, and opinion of the argument useless.
  
  
• You may wish to revise your assessment of which way the argument was headed and in whose favour it was falling.
  
  
• If you had taken the time to look, you would have noticed that the 'useless' bio belonged to the black woman.
  
  
• I hope that Coventrysucks hasn't made the same mistake as you have.

Oh, and in regards to me calling him an 11 year old girl - it didn't happen, so don't tell me it did. Read my quote and try applying sarcasm to your interpretation - it will help.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Oh dear.

I am talking about the black woman, NOT the white woman.

• The fact that you didn't know this makes your posts, and opinion of the argument useless.
  
  Perhaps if your argument made sense. WTF are you actually arguing? that a black woman hasn't heard a white woman call her "Nigger" before?
  
  perhaps because it's JUST NOT THE DONE THING?
  
• You may wish to revise your assessment of which way the argument was headed and in whose favour it was falling.
  
  So what your telling me is that the black woman, the VICTIM of this racism, doesn't usually go about yelling at racist things?
  
  Sorry, argument void there, my friend. if someone said something so offensive about you, because of the colour of your skin, i'd make a big deal about it. i don't know about you.
  
  That wasn't hard at all. and didn't require special font
  
• If you had taken the time to look, you would have noticed that the 'useless' bio belonged to the black woman.
  
  I care enough about this issue not to give two craps about who your arguing about - the points you made are still useless
  
• I hope that Coventrysucks hasn't made the same mistake as you have.

hopefully your argument might make better sense. because if it can beso easily misinterpreted what the hell your annoyed about.....

Oh, and in regards to me calling him an 11 year old girl - it didn't happen, so don't tell me it did. Read my quote and try applying sarcasm to your interpretation - it will help.

Regardless of sarcasm or interpretation. it did happen. you said it outright. here.

Are you an 11 year old girl?

you're a liar if you say you didn't. regardless of it's interpretation.

[adrenaline]

Regardless of sarcasm or interpretation. it did happen. you said it outright. here.




you're a liar if you say you didn't. regardless of it's interpretation.

So you are just going to ditch and bail from the rest? What happened to me contradicting myself? You could have at least admitted that you were wrong.

Are you an 11 year old girl?

That does not say "Coventrysucks, you are an 11 year old girl". Give it up. FFS have you ever heard of sarcasm?! I DIDN'T DIRECTLY CALL HIM AN 11 YEAR OLD, as you keep saying I did.

Why would I dare call him anything offensive, with his infraction fetish and all. He banned baddabang for saying 'dickhead', think of what he would do if I called him a little girl.


This has been one of the biggest wastes of time in my life.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

So you are just going to ditch and bail from the rest? What happened to me contradicting myself? You could have at least admitted that you were wrong.

I made a mistake. yes.

however the point still stands.

That does not say "Coventrysucks, you are an 11 year old girl". Give it up. FFS have you ever heard of sarcasm?! I DIDN'T DIRECTLY CALL HIM AN 11 YEAR OLD, as you keep saying I did.

You did. you asked him a blunt, direct question. a question that cannot get any blunter or more direct.

Sarcasm =/= being nasty.

Why would I dare call him anything offensive, with his infraction fetish and all. He banned baddabang for saying 'dickhead', think of what he would do if I called him a little girl.

Well you'd best be a little weary then


This has been one of the biggest wastes of time in my life.

Glad to have been a part of it.

[adrenaline]

You did. you asked him a blunt, direct question. a question that cannot get any blunter or more direct.

Sarcasm =/= being nasty.

The saga continues.

His response was of 11 year old girl caliber. The question was sarcasm, obviously, and was supposed to remind him that he should be better than that. Why would I call him a girl, when I am condemning his girly response? It doesn't make sense. Absolute Rubbish. Let it go. I didn't call him a girl, or intend to infer anything of that nature.

Attempting to manufacture proof through a stretched inference does not substitute for the real thing.

I have stressed that your interpretation is not consistent with the intention, yet you persist. I don't appreciate being called a liar.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

His response being that of an 11 year old girl is
1) your opinion.
2) unfounded.

And it does make sense - your trying to discredit his argument by bringing what he has to say down.

There was no manufacturing, I assure you - everything I quoted was what you posted.

Considering that you at first write the comment and then try to minimise it's impact by using different techniques screams of cover up. and i'll call you a liar if you say one thing but do another. I can understand the offensiveness of my comments (something the white girl in BB perhaps did not understand) but I'm willing to stand behind it.

I'm more than happy to be wrong about this situation, but to me the intention was not sarcastic, it was nasty.

[nota]

This little UCP tete-a-tete is more entertaining than the tv show itself

[adrenaline]

His response being that of an 11 year old girl is
1) your opinion.
2) unfounded.


And it does make sense - your trying to discredit his argument by bringing what he has to say down.

There was no manufacturing, I assure you - everything I quoted was what you posted.

Considering that you at first write the comment and then try to minimise it's impact by using different techniques screams of cover up. and i'll call you a liar if you say one thing but do another. I can understand the offensiveness of my comments (something the white girl in BB perhaps did not understand) but I'm willing to stand behind it.

I'm more than happy to be wrong about this situation, but to me the intention was not sarcastic, it was nasty.

Yes it was my opinion. What else do you think it was? After all, his comment made to me was rude an insulting. He was the first, and only one to be rude and insulting at all. Please don't tell me you didn't bother to read the part of his post I was responding to.

The part of his argument I was 'discrediting' was THE PART WHERE HE TOLD ME TO CRAWL BACK UNDER MY ROCK. *hysterical laughing* The irony is killing me.

You obviously don't understand what I mean by manufacturing. You can't manufacture a quote, obviously. Your proof was an inference, a grossly incorrect one at that. You used your opinion as the primary tool to call me a liar. That is unacceptable, besides being quite stupid, in my opinion.

Your argument isn't looking so good. You try to condemn my remark as an insult, when my remark was responding to an insult made by him.

Perhaps if he never said something so utterly stupid and insulting in the first place, then this would never have happened. But since he did, I will liken his conduct to that of an 11 year old girl. I don't need to cover anything up. If I wanted to call him a girl I would have.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Yes it was my opinion. What else do you think it was? After all, his comment made to me was rude an insulting. He was the first, and only one to be rude and insulting at all. Please don't tell me you didn't bother to read the part of his post I was responding to.


I've read the whole thread. the whole....crappy....thread. while i agree that what he said was perhaps a little cruel he did not call you an 11 year old girl.

What he called you was misinformed. which i also believe you are.

The part of his argument I was 'discrediting' was THE PART WHERE HE TOLD ME TO CRAWL BACK UNDER MY ROCK. *hysterical laughing* The irony is killing me.

Again - a little cruel but not worth getting personal over.

You obviously don't understand what I mean by manufacturing. You can't manufacture a quote, obviously. Your proof was an inference, a grossly incorrect one at that. You used your opinion as the primary tool to call me a liar. That is unacceptable, besides being quite stupid, in my opinion.

My proof was something that you wrote. are you telling me you wrote a gross inference? i happen to think that what you said was quite blatant and upfront, with very little room for interpretation.

I called you a liar because you blatantly said you did not call him an 11 year old girl. which you plainly did. no matter my opinion on the issue, it's blunt and clear as day.

whats most unacceptable is that you cannot own up to what you say.

Your argument isn't looking so good. You try to condemn my remark as an insult, when my remark was responding to an insult made by him.

An off hand comment about your complete lack of knowledge on the subject > a petty remark about how someone "Sounds". it's a forum, are you reading aloud?

Perhaps if he never said something so utterly stupid and insulting in the first place, then this would never have happened. But since he did, I will liken his conduct to that of an 11 year old girl. I don't need to cover anything up. If I wanted to call him a girl I would have.

You obviously wanted to because thats what happened.

perhaps if he didn't make the remark he wouldn't have given you (and i) this opportunity to see how you react when called upon to explain your own actions. "He started it" is not a valid excuse.

This little UCP tete-a-tete is more entertaining than the tv show itself

indeed.

[adrenaline]

You obviously wanted to because thats what happened.

perhaps if he didn't make the remark he wouldn't have given you (and i) this opportunity to see how you react when called upon to explain your own actions. "He started it" is not a valid excuse.

I likened his response to that of an 11 year old girl. Likening something with something else is NOT the same as labeling something as something else. It's so clear, yet you refuse to give up - to the pathetic extent to which you call me a liar. You seem to think that I'm hiding it or trying to cover it up. The fact is, you don't know anything about me. I'm not the kind of person who runs and hides from things. Why the hell would I be afraid to admit something on an internet forum? In fear that some prick is going to cry at me? While I generally have no problem with you, your persistence in telling me I'm a liar based on NO fact and simple an opinion is pushing me. I don't even have a problem with Coventrysucks, I just think he needs to take more care when speaking to people he doesn't know. I'll tell you once again, I'm not the kind of person who sits on his ass and simply accepts blatant rudeness and disrespect - even from someone on the other side of the globe.

Now I'm not going to sit down and once again rebut everything you have said, because to be honest with you, most of it is rubbish anyway. For example, I said that the inference you used as a proof was grossly incorrect. So you respond with "are you telling me you wrote a gross inference?". That doesn't make sense. I refuse to waste time responding to that caliber of rubbish, no offense. What's even worse is that your whole argument is based on your subjective opinion, which is that I'm lying - and you refuse to believe otherwise. That kind of attitude renders the argument useless anyway.

I'm going to be away for the next 3 days - so I'm not going to have the opportunity to continue this argument immediately. But so far, It's been interesting and dare I say entertaining. I've been attacked by two moderators, one of whom thinks that an actively racist-hating Brit was surprised by the existence of racism, and the other who had the story upside-down, admitted error and resorted to simply calling me a liar. Good times

This little UCP tete-a-tete is more entertaining than the tv show itself

It's not hard to create something more entertaining than Big Brother

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I likened his response to that of an 11 year old girl. Likening something with something else is NOT the same as labeling something as something else. It's so clear, yet you refuse to give up - to the pathetic extent to which you call me a liar.

So now i'm pathetic. you're a very reactionary person, aren't you.

What i find most pathetic is that you did, quite obviously (and this is what frustrates me) and BLATANTLY, call him an 11 year old girl.

don't turn this on me - you said it, you defend it.

You seem to think that I'm hiding it or trying to cover it up. The fact is, you don't know anything about me. I'm not the kind of person who runs and hides from things. Why the hell would I be afraid to admit something on an internet forum? In fear that some prick is going to cry at me?

I don't know who you are but the impression you've left on me through this recent course of events is not a positive one.

I don't know why, i don't know how. all i know is what is written in front of me. and that is you saying one thing and doing another.

While I generally have no problem with you, your persistence in telling me I'm a liar based on NO fact and simple an opinion is pushing me. I don't even have a problem with Coventrysucks, I just think he needs to take more care when speaking to people he doesn't know.

I agree CovSucks is a very abrupt person who does not tolerate fools lightly. And i don't have a problem with you either. i have a problem, however, when you choose to be petty and non-constructive with your comments.

I'll tell you once again, I'm not the kind of person who sits on his ass and simply accepts blatant rudeness and disrespect - even from someone on the other side of the globe.

And fair enough too. but you've not gone about things in the right way.

the best revenge is to prove your argument without name calling.

Now I'm not going to sit down and once again rebut everything you have said, because to be honest with you, most of it is rubbish anyway. For example, I said that the inference you used as a proof was grossly incorrect. So you respond with "are you telling me you wrote a gross inference?". That doesn't make sense.

Sure it does. I used your comment as proof. then you tell me my proof is a Gross Inference.

This is first year debating stuff.

I refuse to waste time responding to that caliber of rubbish, no offense.

None taken. but one man's trash is another's treasure.

What's even worse is that your whole argument is based on your subjective opinion, which is that I'm lying - and you refuse to believe otherwise. That kind of attitude renders the argument useless anyway.

I'll refuse to believe otherwise when you admit that you said what you did. at the moment all i see written in front of me is that comments were taken out of context and have been grossly inferred. no personal responsibility at all.

I stand behind calling you a liar because i mean it. and i'll back that even if i'm proven wrong (which believe me, when it comes to someone who's opinion i generally respect, i'm happy to be wrong) but at the moment nothing is coming through to change my mind.

I'm going to be away for the next 3 days - so I'm not going to have the opportunity to continue this argument immediately. But so far, It's been interesting and dare I say entertaining. I've been attacked by two moderators, one of whom thinks that an actively racist-hating Brit was surprised by the existence of racism, and the other who had the story upside-down, admitted error and resorted to simply calling me a liar. Good times

So you've been ATTACKED by two moderators. nice way to shift any responsiblity for the issue off yourself.

And you leave the debate with simple name calling - not only that but some pretty severe comments which i hope to god you can back up because calling someone naive is a pretty big call.

It strikes back, in fact to my original issue. you calling someone a name and then not backing it up. If your going to do it thats fine, but have the guts to state why and give evidence as such. otherwise you've learnt nothing from out little chat.

As for my argument - you can break it down any which way you like, the fact is you have not, in any shape or form, managed to fiddle with the language to prove my point wrong.

Good times indeed, and i hope you have a pleasant time away



It's not hard to create something more entertaining than Big Brother

if i wanted to watch a group of people sit on a couch all day and complain i'd move into student residences at my uni

[adrenaline]

This will be brief, because as I said I'm going away and need the sleep

Who is being petty? Your whole argument is about me supposedly calling him a girl. There is about a page of you trying to prove to me that I really did mean to call him an 11 year old girl. Honestly, who is being petty?

You lost the actual argument at the top of the page where you mistook who I was talking about and practically proved my point for me From there you hung on to the "11 year old girl" point to keep the remainder of your argument afloat.

You have one single point - which is that I directly labeled him a girl. Whereas in reality I likened his conduct to what I would expect from a young girl. Comparing his behaviour to a girl is different to saying "hey, you're a girl". I'm getting tired of explaining this.

Putting the petty girl calling issue aside, the true argument was between he and I - he being adamant that an active racist hater was completely surprised about the existence of racist/ offensive terms.

I may continue this in 3 days, if it is still alive