Have you done this IQ Test?

[Kitdy]

Socialism sucks.

Classic UMP rhetoric. Go look at a quality of living index on the internet. The Human Development Index is a good example. You will notice the top countries are left leaning / welfare states / vaguely socialist states. A coincidence? At least socialism starts under the premise of collaboration / cooperation as opposed to some other systems. I think that at least is good.

I'd say of the top ten in HDI, 7/10 have current left / historic left leaning / progressive governments, and the other 3 are right wing (US, Australia,Ireland - Canada is currently right wing but not too much and it won;t last long).

EDIT: added linkn, fixed, typo.

Anyone ready to make a new thread about political debate?

[Kitdy]

For a start the second Spanish Republic wasn't a socialist regime but a capitalist one, at least during 1931-1936 period. And secondly who can know what would have happened if the Republic would've won the war. Probably the economical conditions would've been worse. Just look at what happened in the URSS and what happened here from 1957 on.

Bear in mind that I am not discussing, cultural, political or criminal issues here

I was referring to when the Populist Front (can't remember what they are called) was elected in 1936 (the election that spawned the war). I did a project on the Spanish Civil War and it broke my heart to see that so much violence and destruction was caused only over political debate. The point of democracy is that people can choose what they want - the people of Spain chose a socialist government and some army officers decided to rebel and fight.

I would have thought you would have preferred the Republicans solely because they allowed for much greater autonomy in Catalunya (also Basque country and a few others as well).

[Ferrer]

I was referring to when the Populist Front (can't remember what they are called) was elected in 1936 (the election that spawned the war). I did a project on the Spanish Civil War and it broke my heart to see that so much violence and destruction was caused only over political debate. The point of democracy is that people can choose what they want - the people of Spain chose a socialist government and some army officers decided to rebel and fight.

I would have thought you would have preferred the Republicans solely because they allowed for much greater autonomy in Catalunya (also Basque country and a few others as well).

If you did research you will know that while the Fascist made use of the violence, the Republicans did too, killing preists and bussinessmen in large numbers.

Of course when it comes to rights, autonomy, culutre and politics Franco's dictatorship was truly awful but I remember my point was about economics. And anyway I don't think the Comunist regimes of the east were that forgiving when it comes to politics compared to what we had here...

[Piacki_117]

Classic UMP rhetoric. Go look at a quality of living index on the internet. The Human Development Index is a good example. You will notice the top countries are left leaning / welfare states / vaguely socialist states. A coincidence? At least socialism starts under the premise of collaboration / cooperation as opposed to some other systems. I think that at least is good.

I'd say of the top ten in HDI, 7/10 have current left / historic left leaning / progressive governments, and the other 3 are right wing (US, Australia,Ireland - Canada is currently right wing but not too much and it won;t last long).

France saw 21 years of socialism between 1981 and 2002. To use your own example, in 1980, France's HDI was in 7th position worlwide and the country's GDP per capita was classed 5th. In 2002... well, I let you look up at the numbers by yourself. All of this for what? Because it happens too often that the social politic is done by putting economic logic down.

[Kitdy]

If you did research you will know that while the Fascist made use of the violence, the Republicans did too, killing preists and bussinessmen in large numbers.

Of course when it comes to rights, autonomy, culutre and politics Franco's dictatorship was truly awful but I remember my point was about economics. And anyway I don't think the Comunist regimes of the east were that forgiving when it comes to politics compared to what we had here...

Yeah, I am in no way trying to defend the Republicans or the Nationalists for all the killing they did. The Nationalists did slightly more but that is probably only because they were the victors and had the chance to jail people and things.

Ok, I would at least say that I would rather have lived in the Republic as I would have greater rights and personal freedoms than under Franco's regime. What do you think? Would you had rather the Nationalists win like they did or the Republicans?

Finally, I would hardly call what you term the "communist regimes of the east" communism - they were all just dictatorships with a vague carrot-on-a-stick "equality" to keep the common man placated. I don't think that proper communism has actually ever been instituted.

France saw 21 years of socialism between 1981 and 2002. To use your own example, in 1980, France's HDI was in 7th position worlwide and the country's GDP per capita was classed 5th. In 2002... well, I let you look up at the numbers by yourself. All of this for what? Because it happens too often that the social politic is done by putting economic logic down.

Ok several things. Socialism does not always work. I admit it. Some nations are not accustomed to it and greed and laziness takes over and it fails. For socialism to truly work the whole education system needs changed and people's attitudes to be coming rich and wealthy need to be reevaluated.

Also, there was a recession in the 80's that may have effected France more than other countries for one reason or the other, or many, many other reasons. I am not trying to absolve the blame of socialism in France, but I would hardly call the socialism that was there actual socialism, more like slightly left as socialist parties these days are rarely actually truly socialist.

Let us continue this discussion in another thread if you two want to keep talking.

[Ferrer]

Yeah, I am in no way trying to defend the Republicans or the Nationalists for all the killing they did. The Nationalists did slightly more but that is probably only because they were the victors and had the chance to jail people and things.

Ok, I would at least say that I would rather have lived in the Republic as I would have greater rights and personal freedoms than under Franco's regime. What do you think? Would you had rather the Nationalists win like they did or the Republicans?

Finally, I would hardly call what you term the "communist regimes of the east" communism - they were all just dictatorships with a vague carrot-on-a-stick "equality" to keep the common man placated. I don't think that proper communism has actually ever been instituted.

Well the thing is I can't really say who would I've preferred to won. I can't judge because we don't know what would've happened if the Republic won. Maybe we would have been under a similar regime to the URSS or maybe not. We know that Franco was bad, that's a fact, but we don't know if the Republic would've been any good after the war.

The best thing would've been to have no war at all.

[Kitdy]

Well the thing is I can't really say who would I've preferred to won. I can't judge because we don't know what would've happened if the Republic won. Maybe we would have been under a similar regime to the URSS or maybe not. We know that Franco was bad, that's a fact, but we don't know if the Republic would've been any good after the war.

The best thing would've been to have no war at all.

I am not so sure they would have turned to the USSR overnight. The Second Spanish Republic was a democratic system and even during the war there were still elections and things. In this situation, I think it would have been better had the Republicans won.

[taz_rocks_miami]

As you well know, I'm all for political debates, this just isn't the thread for it.

[Kitdy]

As you well know, I'm all for political debates, this just isn't the thread for it.

Make a new one. I am scared to. What is your stance by the way?

[taz_rocks_miami]

Make a new one. I am scared to. What is your stance by the way?

Scared? Of what? I'll let you my stance n the new thread. Maybe either you or Ferrer should start the new thread. I'l gladly join in.

[clutch-monkey]

Congratulations, Sam!
Your IQ score is 127
Your Intellectual Type is Insightful Linguist.

seems like a decent test, but that's the first time i've been described as insightful

[zeppelin]

Wow, this thread really deviated from its original course. Anyway,

Congratulations, Sean!
Your IQ score is 131

Your Intellectual Type is Insightful Linguist. This means you are highly intelligent and have the natural fluency of a writer and the visual and spatial strengths of an artist. Those skills contribute to your creative and expressive mind.

Oh boy, I'm awesome.

[DesmoRob]

127, and I'm a visual mathematician. Neato.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

133, couldn't give a toss as to what I am though... something to do with words?

[P4g4nite]

Your IQ score is 133 (I'm 24 for whatever impact that has on the score)

Your Intellectual Type is Facts Curator. This means you are highly intelligent and have picked up an impressive and unique collection of facts and figures over the years. You've got a remarkable vocabulary and exceptional math skills — which puts you in the same class as brainiacs like Bill Gates. And that's just some of what we know about you from your test results.

I do have a remarkable collection of thoroughly useless facts and big words. But...Bill Gates?? I guess there could be worse people to be compared to.