Venom 1000 Viper Vs Veyron

[hightower99]

Using ricer mentality that many here seem to love when bagging pushrods..........the Veyron needs 4 turbos and 8 odd L to achieve a measly 1000hp.

Now the turbo rule as used in most racing clubs of 1.5 (per turbo) x 4 (for the 4 turbos used in the Bugatti) + 8 (for engine displacement). So what you have is 14L to achieve 1000hp........which is 71.43hp per litre. The Ultima GTR640 on the other hand using the humble 6.2L Chev engine pumps out a stunning 640hp without forced induction, this equates to 103hp per litre.

If you take this further and even the two engines out by adding an extra 7.8L for the Ultima to equal the Bugattis 14L total capacity then you get a monsterous 640hp + (7.8 x 103)hp = 640hp + 803.4hp = 1443.4hp

Sorry but that is just utter BS... if you think that arguement has any real value then you have some serious problems.

First the Bugatti engine is an 8L W16 Quad Turbo (so you sorta got that right )

Next: About your ridiculous displacement guestimate... To find the equivalent displacement produced by the turbochargers you follow a simple calculation (that you will probably find at those racing clubs )

Seeing as you don't know what the formula is I will tell you...

Ready...?

Here it is: Engine's Volumetric Efficiency in a decimal value (ie 75% = 0.75) multiply that by the static displacement (in any unit so long as you maintain the chosen unit of volume) We will call this value True Displacement Part 1 (TDP1)

Now take the absolute pressure in the manifold and divide it by the atmospheric pressure (you may assume atmospheric pressure to be 14.7 PSI or 101KPa ect.) We will call this value True Displacement Part 2 (TDP2)

Now here comes the tricky part.....


ready...?

TDP1 X TDP2 = equivalent displacement

The number of turboes is irrelevant.

Also what is amazing about a race tuned engine making slightly over 100HP/L stock hondas do much better...

HP/L is also not a measure of efficiency.

[hightower99]

My point is that since people can justify and say that Chev V8's are not effecient because of their hp/L.......then why not the Veyron?

People do not equate the low specific power of Chevy V8s with low efficiency. It is simply disappointing that they are so low in stock trim... Large "modern" american V8s are not inefficient per se. They can have reasonable BSFC figures.

[jediali]

Using ricer mentality that many here seem to love when bagging pushrods..........the Veyron needs 4 turbos and 8 odd L to achieve a measly 1000hp.

Now the turbo rule as used in most racing clubs of 1.5 (per turbo) x 4 (for the 4 turbos used in the Bugatti) + 8 (for engine displacement). So what you have is 14L to achieve 1000hp........which is 71.43hp per litre. The Ultima GTR640 on the other hand using the humble 6.2L Chev engine pumps out a stunning 640hp without forced induction, this equates to 103hp per litre.

If you take this further and even the two engines out by adding an extra 7.8L for the Ultima to equal the Bugattis 14L total capacity then you get a monsterous 640hp + (7.8 x 103)hp = 640hp + 803.4hp = 1443.4hp

I think your confusing bmep with efficiency

-bmep is average cylinder pressure over a cycle and is increased using FI and/or suitable valve timing.

- efficiency ( that is mechanical, volumetric, air cycle, real gas, indicated, heat/time/exhaust blowdown losses) can be entirley independant of turboZ.

[Pando]

Didn't they cost like 3 million to build or something?

I've heard a net loss of 5 million per produced car being mentioned, I'm not sure how big a part counts for the actual build process.

(total costs / number of produced cars) - profit per car

The numbers are easily taken out of context and misused. The Bugatti project was an investment, and all the benefits of it aren't easily measured. It is (was) very much in VW's interest to sell all the cars they planned.

[F1_Master]

I've heard a net loss of 5 million per produced car being mentioned, I'm not sure how big a part counts for the actual build process.

(total costs / number of produced cars) - profit per car

The numbers are easily taken out of context and misused. The Bugatti project was an investment, and all the benefits of it aren't easily measured. It is (was) very much in VW's interest to sell all the cars they planned.

Unforunately, the car will never make a profit, even if someone paid the extra $400,000 to get a jump in the line. Of course, only the mastermind of the Porsche 917 would think of producing a car like the Veyron to begin with.

[Ferrer]

Unforunately, the car will never make a profit, even if someone paid the extra $400,000 to get a jump in the line. Of course, only the mastermind of the Porsche 917 would think of producing a car like the Veyron to begin with.

Which incidently almost brings bankruptcy to Porsche...

[kingofthering]

Which incidently almost brings bankruptcy to Porsche...

But the 917 ended up winning Le Mans several times and was Steve McQueen's car in Le Mans, unlike the Veyron which is too useless to be raced outside of the Gumball Rally.

[The_Canuck]

unlike the Veyron which is too useless to be raced outside of the Gumball Rally.

and thats not even a race...

[Pando]

Unforunately, the car will never make a profit, even if someone paid the extra $400,000 to get a jump in the line.

As stated several times before, the concern is "losing millions per produced car". It still doesn't mean that it wasn't a profitable project for them.

[jediali]

As stated several times before, the concern is "losing millions per produced car". It still doesn't mean that it wasn't a profitable project for them.

absolutley the intelectual and other intangable benefits not to mention publicity is the real profit

[Ferrer]

But the 917 ended up winning Le Mans several times and was Steve McQueen's car in Le Mans, unlike the Veyron which is too useless to be raced outside of the Gumball Rally.

Probably yes but now they only have to build an Bugatti TT, sell it for 75,000€ and wait for the money to come.

[monaroCountry]

Sorry but that is just utter BS... if you think that arguement has any real value then you have some serious problems.

Hey dont blame me, im just applying the same old argument brandied about here to bag out OHV's.

For the price and cost, you have to admit the the Veyron is not a very good car.

[The_Canuck]

For the price and cost, you have to admit the the Veyron is not a very good car.

Thats a bad argument...for free it isn't a very good car...

[F1_Master]

For the price and cost, you have to admit the the Veyron is not a very good car.

Sure, there's probably a lot better for $1.4 million, but I'd rather the company allow me to pay $1.4 million than $5 million just to start making profits.

[Pando]

Sure, there's probably a lot better for $1.4 million, but I'd rather the company allow me to pay $1.4 million than $5 million just to start making profits.

They had to make the car more expensive than others, not for making a profit (or cutting losses), but to further add to the image. The price couldn't be too high however as selling all the cars without problems also was essential.