Pavlov's...Originally Posted by henk4
The Special One
Pavlov's...
Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.
Enthusiast
Well that teaches everybody a lesson for the next F1 driver's championship. If your team cheats and gets caught, HEY as long as your drivers are in the running for the championship it's ok if you use a car that was built around cheating!
Terrible ethics there F1, terrible.
The Special One
You do have a good point there because, in the end, people less aware of the sport will only know that the championship winner drove a McLaren powered by Mercedes. Only the most aware know who wins the maker's championship.
Money can't buy you friends, but you do get a better class of enemy.
Furniture
But that's the case with most championships, like rallying for instance.
Lack of charisma can be fatal.
Visca Catalunya!
Super Moderator
McLarens yearly budget is around the $500m mark. I think thats USD, because if it was Euro's i think it'd be alot closer to the $300m mark. Either way, its about 20% of their yearly budget if i'm right. So whilst it wont break them, especially if its related to the lost TV revenue as Matra is saying, it might still cost them the championship next year. The teams couldve gotten an extra windtunnel or two for that much money.
I am the Stig
Enthusiast
After learning how Alonso's and De la Rosa's freely discussed information (through mails and SMSs) coming from Ferrari and knowing exactly which was the source, I amazed that the drivers were allowed to keep their points...
Zag when they Zig
Fanatic
They ratted out their bosses to save themselves.
[O o)O=\x/=O(o O]
The things we do for girls who won't sleep with us.
Patrick says:
dads is too long so it wont fit
so i took hers out
and put mine in
Rookie
Do you think that Alonso could make some kind of agreement with the FIA to give them the information in return for immunity?
If not, why he could risk his championship in this way?
I ask this because i read that now Alonso can leave McLaren due a exit clause that involves the constructors championship penalisation. So, now Alonso is free and he doesn't get affected in any way...he clearly is the winner in this matter.
Also, it seems that Alonso and De la Rosa were in the middle of the spy trama.....so it's unbelievable they haven't been punished (if they haven't a agreement with the FIA)
Alonso likely to leave McLaren
FIA reveal evidence against McLaren
Last edited by mikelzapi3; 09-14-2007 at 10:34 AM.
Life is too short to stay, race!
Gora Euskadi! Visca Catalunya!
Super Moderator
It was obvious that the FIA either knew or at least STRONGLY suspected that the drivers and other McLaren staff had been discussing things with each other, otherwise they would not have specifically asked them to disclose any details or correspondences they had. If Alonso and De La Rosa HADN'T handed over the information then there would forever be a suspicion hanging over their heads, tarnishing their racing careers. And of course if the information had actually come out some other way at a later date, thus proving that they had lied to the WMSC, then Alonso and De La Rosa would probably have been banned from the sport long term. Either way, to attempt to try and cover things up and lie would not only have been appallingly dishonest, it would have been professional suicide. I don't really see what else they could have done under the circumstances.
uәʞoɹq spɹɐoqʎәʞ ʎɯ
Ultimatecarpage COO, N.A.
Official Transcript: http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...ion_130907.pdf
important points:
"- a penalty consisting of exclusion from and withdrawal of all points awarded to McLaren in all rounds of the 2007 Constructors’ Championship. For the avoidance of doubt, McLaren will be permitted to race in the remaining rounds of the 2007 Championship but will not be permitted to score points in the Constructors Championship or attend the podium in the event of a top three finish in any of the remaining races in the 2007 season. Points scored by other competitors in the Championship to date will not be affected further to the withdrawal of McLaren’s points;
- a fine of USD100 million (less any sum that would have been payable by Formula One Management Limited on account of McLaren’s results in the 2007 Constructors Championship had it not been excluded). This fine shall be payable within three months from the date of this Decision."
final interesting note:
"McLaren is reminded of its right of appeal. In the event that an appeal is lodged with the FIA International Court of Appeal, the effect of this Decision will not be suspended pending the outcome of that appeal."
unlike most appeals in sport, the player/team can usually continue to compete until the outcome of the appeal
aka: Rob Clements, Ultimatecarpage North American Correspondent
"big durango", formerly known as the "MEDIA MASTER", (title now belonging to Matt)
'64
And the drivers escape despite the fact that, according to the FIA's evidence, it is the drivers who, along with Coughlan are the most intimately involved of all McLaren's staff in the use and discussion of the information.
Less sporting than Ferrari, who admit they would rather win a championship by having rivals banned via the courts, than racing on a circuit?
The FIA has seen the documents and the MP4/22 and found no correlation.
Using knowledge to inform the development of components, systems and strategies is no different from Adrian Newey using his knowledge at Red Bull, Nicholas Tombazis using his knowledge at Ferrari, Angelo Santini and Mauro Iacconi using their knowledge and "10,000 pages" of Ferrari data at Toyota, or Phil Mackereth using his knowledge and 3 discs of McLaren data at Renault.
They are all "cheating", and it is accepted - certainly nothing will happen about Toyota and Renault's own espionage escapades, despite there being accusations and evidence that the teams were more complicit in acquisition and use of the data than the evidence shows McLaren to be in this instance.
The only issue here is how that knowledge came to the team; if McLaren had hired Stepney at the start of the season, would this case ever have arisen?
Last edited by Coventrysucks; 09-14-2007 at 12:16 PM.
Enthusiast
Alright, and Michael Schumacher's offence was obviously a complete accident and he couldn't have helped deliberately stopping his car to prevent several others on faster laps getting pole position. If anything, the bias has been in Ferrari's favour, with the flexi wings and undertrays, etc. Getting away with asking one driver to slow down before the final straight to let their other driver win the title.
McLaren is also renowned as being the most sporting team in the whole of Formula 1. It was also the CEO who provided the FIA with this new evidence.
Well said Coventry
[QUOTE=Coventrysucks]The FIA has seen the documents and the MP4/22 and found no correlation.[QUOTE]
He's on a roll, watch out people
Completely agree with what you said Coventry.
Good news from McLaren's point of view. Santander, Johnnie Walker, Mutua Madrilena and Mercedes-Benz has all said they will stay with McLaren.
Norbert Haug said: "We are convinced that our partner (McLaren) did nothing wrong." Good stuff.
itv.com/f1 - Dennis was source of new evidence
Latest Vodafone McLaren Mercedes News
Last edited by Street_Dreamer; 09-14-2007 at 04:59 PM.
Super Moderator
Theres a massive difference between a designer moving and taking his own knowledge, and the actual IPR of a team being leaked. The designers have every right in the world to pack up and leave one team and continue their conceptual designs with another team. Its espionage whichever way you look at it for them to take hard documents of what may or may not be their work, that belongs to somebody else once it has been put from pen to paper.
As for the drivers, well as far as i can see they were operating within the realms of the team, and not in their seperate duty as a driver. The team has the responsibility to make sure no member holds any IP of another team, and they failed. Whilst i'd fully expect the British media to vilify Alonso for hanging "their" team on a noose, it seems its De La Rosa who's done worse for the team.
I am the Stig
Fanatic
So what if Ron Dennis tipped off FIA about their own offence? He is also the same person who cried foul about the appeal, and cried foul again when they got their just(if not reduced) penalty for a CLEAR TRANSGRESSION that have been committed by his team. It either means he is aware of the situation, allowing it to happen, therefore he is just as guilty as the rest of them(does a premeditated murderer who turned himself in makes him innocient?), or he has lost his ability to lead his team of integrity to kept their integrity and therefore no longer fit to manage his people....
University of Toronto Formula SAE Alumni 2003-2007
Formula Student Championship 2003, 2005, 2006
www.fsae.utoronto.ca
Fanatic
?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
