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Thread: Maserati Racing Cars History

  1. #31
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    some minor corrections.

    The picture of the "original" Brianza spyder, to me looks like Chassis 1124, which is actually shown by Odin, but with a caption 4CS1500, which it is not. We saw the car last year at the Bonhams auction in Monaco, where the picture is taken.
    The picture that Faksta shows clearly is show a vivid yellow car, as was presented by Brianza in 1932.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  2. #32
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    The ex Kauss Maserati 4CS 1100 #1124 has an 1500cc Engine, for this I put 4CS 1500 MM. Would like to know, what is original in this car and what were later modifications. Anybody knows, who did the body? For me one of the most beautiful pre-war cars.
    Jörg

  3. #33
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    1124 was originally fitted with engine #1124. Delivered in March 1935 to Subalpina racing. Later owned by th Cunningham museum (before Kauss presumably). In april 1935 Subalpina took delivery of #1524, which was apparently a new chassis. (not like 1120 CM), which later got a 1500 cc engine, and is featured on the main page of Ultimatecarpage.

    According to the Bonham's catalogue, issued during the sale in Monaco 2006. "probably before mid 1940 its original cycle-mudguard bodywork was replaced by the present well proportioned and well made enveloping body form" No name of the builder of the second body...

    according to the same source, the 1500 cc engine now in the car may have been installed prior to participation of the 1938 Mille Miglia, but this is not confirmed.
    Last edited by henk4; 11-25-2007 at 11:33 AM.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  4. #34
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    Jorg, the car wearing #66 is #1531. (got a shot of the plate on the dash...)
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  5. #35
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    #1531

    Thank you Henk,
    but according to my information, #1531 is a Tipo 6CM 1500.
    I found this car #66 in Enricos Maserati Page, with description of a 4CM 1100, I have a Pic of the Engine, but is is to big, to upload.
    Regards
    Jörg
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Thank you Henk,
    but according to my information, #1531 is a Tipo 6CM 1500.
    I found this car #66 in Enricos Maserati Page, with description of a 4CM 1100, I have a Pic of the Engine, but is is to big, to upload.
    Regards
    Jörg
    interesting, I saw 1531 at the Monaco Historic GP in 2006, and it did have a plate saying 4CM, and the 4 exhausts are clearly visible..and as it has no 66 I made the link to your pic. I did not make a shot from the front side...

    I also found that officially 1531 is listed as a 6CM....so I added the shot of the plate...you can spot the same blue blanket on the engine cover..
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    Last edited by henk4; 11-25-2007 at 01:48 PM.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  7. #37
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    Some more pics of the Swiss 4CM,
    Thats the problem with old Racing cars, maybe there are two cars, but only one ID. Lets hear, whats Facsta know about
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  8. #38
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    Some more Pics?

    Henk, I scaled down the engine pic, so I can upload it.
    I have another Question of a 1920-Ballot 2-LS Targa Florio Car. This Car was 2005? in Het Loo, do you have some information and some Pics, in your 'secret Archive', please?
    Jörg
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Henk, I scaled down the engine pic, so I can upload it.
    I have another Question of a 1920-Ballot 2-LS Targa Florio Car. This Car was 2005? in Het Loo, do you have some information and some Pics, in your 'secret Archive', please?
    Jörg
    further to 1531, (also in your pic with a 4 cylinder engine) it seems to have a chequered history, like many pre-war and also post war maseratis (three 250Fs with the same chassis 2523...). It's engine changed over time and also the body work. I need to do more reading.

    I have seen a 1922 Ballot 2LS that came to the 2007 Goodwood Festival of Speed, but it was said to be a road car, and no TF model. Did not go to Het Loo in 2005.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Some more pics of the Swiss 4CM,
    Thats the problem with old Racing cars, maybe there are two cars, but only one ID. Lets hear, whats Facsta know about
    I'll search a bit later

  11. #41
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    I don't know French, but it seems to me that here an owner of #1531 is interviewed:

    http://www.motorlegend.com/competiti...ge/6,6990.html

    I think you'd better click the upper link and read yourself if you know French, but as I understood it, chassis #1531 is basically a 6CM used by Rossi in 1936-1937, but later the engine was replaced by 4CM version and was used by Harry Schell in 1948. Not sure, cause my French, as I have already said, is horrible...

    BTW, Pieter, at the pic of the numberplate you provided, it could be seen that the plate was changed somehow (at least, it seems to me so), especially that ornament under the '4' figure... Maybe Schell changed it together with the engine?

    And yes, the last - I found that soke version were made of 4CS 1500 using bodies by Campari, Sorniotto and Menarini. What I know for sure is that #1124 is not Menarini. I've got a pic of Menarini car and will post it soon.

    EDIT: Though here the info is completely different...

    Detail - Tipo 6 CM s/n 1531
    Last edited by faksta; 11-26-2007 at 08:28 AM.

  12. #42
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    well yes that is the car obviously. so that is solved. (Robin Lodge stopped racing a while ago, and both his Dino recreations were sold)
    as far as the body of 1124 is concerned, I think it will be difficult to establish as even Bonhams does not mention a name in their sales catalogue.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  13. #43
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    Nah..just found that Campari&Sorniotti bodywork was applied to a chassis #1516 and #1519, Menarini is #1517.

  14. #44
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    I'll never stop learning,
    maybe the car, I put with #1531 is wrong, or a second one. I found it with this # in Enricos and barchetta cc page. Like I told you before, I'm to far away to check it personaly.
    To the 250 F, I can tell you, the person, who bought the 12C-37 Alfa in Argentine, found all 250 F, less one in southamerica, as well as many 300 S and others, but all without engines. They are all refabricated, mostly in England and I'm shure, they did others to, as well, as complete cars. It was long before the argentinian startet, rebuilding cars. He found cars, standing in the street, in front of shops. 3 Cars, for 5000 USD and nobody wanted them. The engines were mostly used for speedboats.
    Would like to go back in time.
    Jörg

  15. #45
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    1932-1936 Maserati 4CS 1500. There was actually no need to build the V5 to realize that the present Tipo 26 chassis are getting old. To fix the disadvantage, the new 1,5-liter 4CS 1500 was developed. This was the first car Ernesto Maserati worked on alongside with Alfieri. The car was quite similar to 1100 model, but took some advantages, such as hydraulic brakes in 1935 (before 1935 - mechanically operated). Moreover, it used bore and stroke from the 'elder brother' - 8C 3000, which also appeared in 1932. Engine power was quite sufficient for 1,5-liter car - 115hp @ 5000rpm. As for the performance, inline 4-cylinder engined car that weighed just 630 kilos, was capable of 170kmh. Prepared mainly for sports events, not racing, 4CS 1500 entered Mille Miglia several times - during 1934-1936. In 1934 the car with Campari&Sorniotto bodywork (Ippolito Berrone - P. Bortolini) didn't see the chequered flag, the same could be said for 1935 participants - Luigi Scarfiotti and M.Penati in #1524 car, suffered accident. But finally in 1936 the 4CS 1500 #1529 took 5th place in Mille Miglia driven by Omobono Tenni and Guerino Bertocchi. Besides sports events, 4CS 1500 attended some circuit races, until 4CM 1500 replaced it. Through 1932-1936 7 cars were made, including Menarini and Campari&Sorniotto - bodied cars.

    1. 4CS 1500 in 1932.
    2. 4CS 1500 during 1934 Parma-Poggio di Berceto driven by Ippolito Berrone. EDIT: I couldn't prove my thoughts, but I'm gonna think that this is the Campari&Sorniotto-bodied car...
    3. 4CS 1500 with Menarini body in 1936 Mille Miglia (Giovanni Rocco - Filippone). Though at official Mille Miglia database the car is named '8C 26B 2000 Menarini'. It seems to me, that the engine was replaced by 2,0-liter unit. Though I can't explain why '26B', as it was a completely different car.
    Last edited by faksta; 12-09-2007 at 06:55 AM.

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