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Thread: Maserati Racing Cars History

  1. #76
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    Thanks,
    this car was offered as #1127
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Thanks,
    this car was offered as #1127
    yep, that is in front of the Roks building, see the Ruttchen logo with the Mercedes stars there.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  3. #78

    Hi

    Hi..
    I heard about Maserati racing cars and few cars like Maserati MC12, Maserati 5000 GT Coupe and A GranCabrio. I also saw the pictures which you uploaded and i really like them and I have some pictures of Maserati A GranCabrio. These cars are really very good and popular racing cars. The Maserati MC12 is the fantastic car with a powerful engine and great aerodynamics.

    Thanks...
    Last edited by James_alex; 10-13-2010 at 11:19 PM.

  4. #79
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    Many thanks for the picture of 1127, but just how long ago was the car sold? I suspect it was some time ago, could be in the 1970s or 1980s? The rear suspension is not right for an early 4CM, but looks the same as was fitted to 1123 when it was converted to monoposto. When that car came to the UK it was discovered that the chassis was from a 4CS, but it had been inverted, reversed, narrowed and the curve over the rear axle (which now formed the front of the chassis) cut off and replaced with lengths of straight channel. The rear suspension was based on the 6CM, with long quarter-elliptic springs and at some time independent front suspension fitted. Every major component was and still is stamped 1123. Both cars had been owned originally by Bergamini, but 1123 was sold in 1937 and was still active in Eritrea right up to Christmas Day 1938. After that we lose track of it. It would appear that at some point after its conversion to single seater the car was assumed to be Bergamini's old 1127 and re-numbered. This is the puzzle I am trying to resolve. Who did the conversion and when?

    Maseratinut

  5. #80
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    My favorite Maserati race car has to be the 1956 Maserati 250F.

    I love the cigar racers, and jeeze, that was such a good looking car. And I like the tantra of them. Hardcore. Power drum brakes, solid rear axles, carbs, Wheels as thick as your wrist. Thats when racing was hardcore.

    1954 - 1956 Maserati 250F - Images, Specifications and Information

  6. #81
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    Maserati 250F

    Agreed, one of my favorites as well. This is #2523 at the 2009 Cavallino Classic.
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    Never own more cars than you can keep charged batteries in...

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maseratinut View Post
    Many thanks for the picture of 1127, but just how long ago was the car sold? I suspect it was some time ago, could be in the 1970s or 1980s? The rear suspension is not right for an early 4CM, but looks the same as was fitted to 1123 when it was converted to monoposto. When that car came to the UK it was discovered that the chassis was from a 4CS, but it had been inverted, reversed, narrowed and the curve over the rear axle (which now formed the front of the chassis) cut off and replaced with lengths of straight channel. The rear suspension was based on the 6CM, with long quarter-elliptic springs and at some time independent front suspension fitted. Every major component was and still is stamped 1123. Both cars had been owned originally by Bergamini, but 1123 was sold in 1937 and was still active in Eritrea right up to Christmas Day 1938. After that we lose track of it. It would appear that at some point after its conversion to single seater the car was assumed to be Bergamini's old 1127 and re-numbered. This is the puzzle I am trying to resolve. Who did the conversion and when?

    Maseratinut
    The Car was offered ca.2003-2004, together with #1125.

  8. #83

    Hi

    Hi...

    At that time these cars are famous racing cars but now a days we can see them in the museums or some historic place. I saw this car running on the racing track and it was very fast car of that time. I am searching for the small model of this car for my car collection.

    Thanks...

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by James_alex View Post
    Hi...

    At that time these cars are famous racing cars but now a days we can see them in the museums or some historic place. I saw this car running on the racing track and it was very fast car of that time. I am searching for the small model of this car for my car collection.

    Thanks...
    Here ya go: http://www.motorsportcollector.com/CMCMaserati250F.html

    I have several CMC models, exceptional detail for the price. The Ferrari 500F2 is amazing so expect this one to equal it.
    Never own more cars than you can keep charged batteries in...

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    The Car was offered ca.2003-2004, together with #1125.
    Sorry, but that date has to be wrong, since the car was converted back to 4CS specification with the work starting in 1990. Can anyone help solve this mystery?

    Maseratinut

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maseratinut View Post
    Sorry, but that date has to be wrong, since the car was converted back to 4CS specification with the work starting in 1990. Can anyone help solve this mystery?

    Maseratinut
    Perhaps somebody is able to identify who offered the car in 2003-04? Who owned 1125 at that time? Was 1127 not offered in 4CS spec?
    Last edited by henk4; 11-16-2010 at 01:55 PM.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  12. #87
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    Let me try to clarify the very confused post-war history of 1123, also known as 1127:

    Both cars were bought new by Bergamini, the 4CS 1123 in January 1935 and the 4CM 1127 in July 1937. Bergamini raced 1123 regularly up to September 1936, but sold it back to the factory in January 1937, retaining 1127.

    In March 1937, the factory sold 1123 to Bartolomeo Negro, who lived in Eritrea. He raced the car on at least two occasions, on 23rd May 1937 and on Christmas Day 1938. Photographs of this event show that the car was still in its original 4CS form.

    It is not known when 1123 left Eritrea, but at some point it was converted to single-seater format. The chassis was heavily modified in the process. It was stripped down and the cross-members removed, then turned upside down and turned back to front, with the inverted original front end narrowed to form an under-slung rear end with quarter elliptic springs as on the later 6CMs. It is believed that, at the same time, the former rear end was cut off and a narrowed new length of chassis fabricated and welded into place to take independent front suspension. The centre part of the chassis was now slightly narrower than its original form, but still considerably wider than a straight-sided 4CM chassis. The side members were extensively drilled with "lightening holes" of varying diameters along the entire length of the chassis. The side members were boxed in.

    By the early 1970s, the car was in a "Texan Speedway Museum" with a modern-style sports body fitted. It was later sold to an American owner who removed the body and, in 1973, sent the chassis to Orsi S.A. in Italy for restoration.

    During the restoration, it was discovered that all the running gear was stamped 1123, but apparently it was mistakenly assumed that the chassis was from 1127, although it bore no resemblance to the 4CM design. Orsi also stated that they had been told that the very unusual independent front suspension was designed by Count "Johnny" Lurani.

    In 1981, the car was sold to an Australian and the car was given an Australian CAMS Vehicle Logbook. I have no evidence whether it was shown as 1123 or 1127.

    In 1983 or '84, the car was sold again, but the new owner did not keep it for long and it was bought by Rudy Pas, possibly in 1984. It is likely that the picture on Marcel Rok's website dates for this time.

    By 1988, the car had changed hands again and was sent to an English Maserati restorer. Here, all the parts, including the chassis, were identified as being from 1123, no parts from 1127 were found. The car was restored to 4CS format, the work beginning in 1990.

    In 1992, the restoration was complete and the car used in competitions including Vintage Sports Car Club races, Nurbergring and the Mille Miglia.

    In December 1994, the car was auctioned by Sothebys at the RAF Museum, Hendon, England. Its current owner continues to compete in the car, still in its two seat 4CS form.

    Maseratinut

  13. #88
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    Very interesting, so when you say it was brought back to 4CS format, was the chassis repaired into its original shape, and all the post-Eritrea changes undone?
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

  14. #89
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    1123/1127

    Yes, the car was restored to as close to the original 4CS specification as possible. The only major differences are the body, which is subtly different from the original and has the choice of cycle wings or a set of long flowing fronts and the conversion of the engine to wet sump, with only one oil pump. This may have been done at an earlier time, as I was asked if I could supply drawings of an original catch tank. The factory must have considered a wet sump as an option, as the patterns for the crank case have provision for an oil dip stick .

    Once the car was stripped down and the chassis examined in detail it was fairly obvious what had been done to convert it to a monoposto format that wasn't anything like an original 4CM chassis. The original mounting holes for the steering box and the spring hangers were still in place and some original cross members used in the conversion still fitted perfectly when the chassis was re-formed to its original shape.

    The restorer and I live under an hour apart and he has done a considerable amount of work on our car, 1126, so I know, trust and like the man.
    Last edited by Maseratinut; 11-30-2010 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Just to add a little clarity to my response.

  15. #90
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    so are you part of this crowd?
    Edit: Silverstone Classic, 2005
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    Last edited by henk4; 11-30-2010 at 01:22 PM.
    "I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting, but it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously." Douglas Adams

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