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Thread: Porsche Panamera (970) 2009-2016

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonOfTheDead View Post
    they could have already done a new supercar instead of buying VW stocks fearing a foreign takeover.
    they already crossed the line with the Cayenne, with the first warning being the 914, not for the car itself but for the collaboration with VW.
    I'm aware of where the 356 came from, but it's not that Porsche could have done things differently. he knew the Beetle quite well, obviously, and it was cheap as a base to start with.
    like tuners using Porsches right now.
    Ferrari earns a lot of money without anything like a Cayenne, and the California, the most controversial model from them in the current lineup, isn't even carrying money yet.
    So, Pagani, or McLaren should built an SUV too just to earn more money?! or a diesel mid size sedan?
    this isn't exactly the same Porsche it was 20 years ago, and the fact the company wasn't in good conditions, isn't my point. Even Lamborghini is always been short on money since...ever. Still it's one of the most famous brand all over the world, and now it's also making money, even if selling a part its heritage thanks to Audi and the R8.
    way way way more acceptable, even welcomed perhaps.
    Well look at BMW with the 5 series Gran Turismo concept. It has stooped even lower to make more money.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by NSXType-R View Post
    Well look at BMW with the 5 series Gran Turismo concept. It has stooped even lower to make more money.
    BMW has lost almost all my consideration.
    I'm fine with MB and Audi gong original and weird, but not BMW, especially if they keep claiming they are the best sport cars manufacturer, yeah, right.
    I don't care anymore how the M3 goes, which engine the new M5 will use and so on. I just lost interest, the M is becoming like a white fly in BMW's lineup, as really pretending the 8C is an Alfa (even if the 8C could be the reason behind Alfa going to the States again and perhaps even going back to rwd sedans, so props to them).
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  3. #63
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    now, this may be a little too much, but it appear to be at least more special and intriguing than the actual car:
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  4. #64
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    Porsche is not a specialty car manufacturer, its not a McLaren or a Pagani who pumps out only a few hundred or a thousand cars a year, its not even a Lambo or Ferrari who makes maybe 5000 cars a year. It makes tens of thousands of cars, on automated lines. It is a full blown car company, who just so happen to specialize in sports car. And unlike most of those companies in that segment, it happens to be quite successful(and VERY profitable). They are expanding their customer base to generate even better margin. If there are the customers to buy their products, they will make them. Porsche is not in the business to lose money. They don't even lose money on their motorsports program. They know what they are doing business-wise, and at the end of the day thats all that matters. As long as they still pump out their core sportscar, I couldn't care-less about what other stuff they sell to make more money...
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
    Porsche is not a specialty car manufacturer, its not a McLaren or a Pagani who pumps out only a few hundred or a thousand cars a year, its not even a Lambo or Ferrari who makes maybe 5000 cars a year. It makes tens of thousands of cars, on automated lines. It is a full blown car company, who just so happen to specialize in sports car. And unlike most of those companies in that segment, it happens to be quite successful(and VERY profitable). They are expanding their customer base to generate even better margin. If there are the customers to buy their products, they will make them. Porsche is not in the business to lose money. They don't even lose money on their motorsports program. They know what they are doing business-wise, and at the end of the day thats all that matters. As long as they still pump out their core sportscar, I couldn't care-less about what other stuff they sell to make more money...
    I don't completely agree with you, even if I see your point.
    still, I don't understand why they couldn't make this car at least this much better looking. it's not that customers would buy it, the main part of Cayennes ones bought it because it's a Porsche, not because it's good looking.
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  6. #66
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    if you have a marketable brand, you might as well use it....good or bad looking, as long as the products don't suck, people as end-user will be satisfy with it...
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  7. #67
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    Porsche isn't a car company. It's a bussiness.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    Porsche isn't a car company. It's a bussiness.
    still, it has more netries in this site than, say Fiat, which maybe is not a business in the very sense of the word, but it wouldn't stupefying me releasing even a luxury model (not branded as a Lancia or Maserati) either.

    in this way, referring to Racing Maniac, we are just ignoring the brand's supposed heritage (not referring to Porsche in particular), its history, the idea people or enthusiasts have about that brand, what it stands for, and so on.
    like, I have a brand, and as long as it will bring money, I can do whatever I want, being a wheeled brick or a racing car.
    I can take experiments from certain very niched brands, as concepts or low volume products, in the same way I would accept (since it would be very good I guess) even a dance mp3 made by Mozart, and I don't like dance music at all.
    So I'm fine with Ferrari experimenting 4wd systems in the seventies, or Porsche designing a low cost sedan in the eighties, and even developing more efficient technologies for the future, and perhaps even exploring new kind of segments. But this, the Panamera, or the Cayenne, aren't Porsche, simply.
    the fact that the Cayenne is just a Touareg (or vice versa, it's not the point), evidences the only thing distinguishing the two is their look, and the road behavior. now the fact that a certain car is fast, even the fastest of its segment, doesn't mean it's a Porsche. The same for the Panamera. It could have the say Maserati badge and it would be the same ugly yet fast car.
    if it's Ferrari is always a big claim about the path they chose, the lack of charisma, of soul, if it's Jaguar they aren0t as good looking or special as they were, Aston's just all look/are the same and so on, a long list.
    when it comes to Porsche, everyone is a little more easy with it, so maybe Porsche is much more than business, it's marketing in first place.

    I can take Toyota producing everything existing as long as it brings money, but Porsche was supposed to be something different.
    Ferrari used to make astonishing road cars to raise some money, just as an example.
    I guess trying to produce the ultimate cheap sport car, a sort of Smart Roadster (just as a reference) where too much difficult for them.
    oh wait, it would be also surely less remunerative.
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  9. #69
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    I basicaly agree with all you said.

    But the thing is since Porsche launched an SUV it stopped being s car manufacturer for me and it became business, in the sense that making money is more important that making cars. They are definitely the Toyota of expensive cars.

    As far as I'm concerned I'm only interested in owning/driving a 911 at some point in my life and then move on. There so much better car manufacturers out there...
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    As far as I'm concerned I'm only interested in owning/driving a 911 at some point in my life and then move on. There so much better car manufacturers out there...
    Which do you mean? Are there still some car manufacturers that produce cars in a bigger number then, let´s say Pagani for example?

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by naweng View Post
    Which do you mean? Are there still some car manufacturers that produce cars in a bigger number then, let´s say Pagani for example?
    Of course.

    There's Maserati, there's Ferrari, there's Alfa Romeo, there's Lamborghini, there's Aston Martin, there's Jaguar, there's Subaru, there's even Citroën if you want.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrer View Post
    I basicaly agree with all you said.

    But the thing is since Porsche launched an SUV it stopped being s car manufacturer for me and it became business, in the sense that making money is more important that making cars. They are definitely the Toyota of expensive cars.

    As far as I'm concerned I'm only interested in owning/driving a 911 at some point in my life and then move on. There so much better car manufacturers out there...
    give me a first gen 911 S, then my need for Porsche would be over I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by naweng View Post
    Which do you mean? Are there still some car manufacturers that produce cars in a bigger number then, let´s say Pagani for example?
    Lotus
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  13. #73
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    Lotus also don't pay for itself's survival.....I don't even know who owns it now...last I check it was still Proton from Malaysia....
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
    Lotus also don't pay for itself's survival.....I don't even know who owns it now...last I check it was still Proton from Malaysia....
    And I think it still is.

    But car manufacturers don't need, necessarily, to be businesses to be profitable.
    Lack of charisma can be fatal.
    Visca Catalunya!

  15. #75
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    Lotus develops technologies and chassis' setups for other manufacturers to make more money.
    it's still owned by proton btw.
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