Jay Leno's Take on the 426 Street Hemi

[dog ear]

A fairly nice collection there. Where abouts where you in TO in that time period? I have lived in Metro Toronto all my life.

Hi Kitdy;
I lived in the East End between 1965 - 1982.
1971-1982 = Queen St. & Logan Ave.

[Kitdy]

Once again, thanks for all the info! I will peruse it at my leisure.

[dog ear]

Just a thought! In reference to Leno's 1970 Hemi Challenger; how many of you actually saw one, or was lucky enough to drive, or drive in a Hemi (of any kind) when they were new?

In T.O. they were a very, very rare sighting, especially in the East End. I remember three Hemi's in all that time that were actually drivin on the street. Others were bonafide race cars meant only for the drag strip.

I seen and drove in quite a few 440 Magnums and Six Packs in my early days. 340s? Gizillions! 383 Magnums? Commom.

Big Block Chevys? Many times...lots of Buicks, Olds, and Pontiacs as well. Even a few Javelins and AMX's.

Big Fords, Mustangs, and Cougars were my thing back then, but, then again, I always liked the Pinto...LOL

[dog ear]

Anyone remember the 'American Dare Devil Thrill Show' at the Toronto Exhibition grounds in the early seventies? Kitdy? I saw my first brand new 1970 Challenger R/T (340 Magnum) up close and personal right there on the track adjacent to the infield following the show.

While everyone was standing around talking to the drivers and getting autographs, I just walked over to the white Challenger, looked inside, saw the keys, and decided to start that mother up...hopped in and did just that. Big Pistol Grip sticking out of the floor caught my eye unexpectedly. I thought that they would all be automatics given the various stunts displayed that afternoon, but, not this ''baby.''

What I recall best was the throaty exhaust note burbling from underneath the car. Just as I put 'er in gear a hand rushed in and grabbed my shoulder, and with a jerk, a snarl emanated from a white jacketed driver that said, ''what the hell are you doing son?'' To my chagrin, I was politely yanked out of the car and asked if I was ''with'' my parents? I bravely stammered ''no'' and thought that I was going to see a nice police officer but that was not the case.

The announcer had seen the whole charade and voiced his amusement to the horror of a couple by-standers, who ''witnessed'' me trying to drive away with the car. "Here is a lucky lad'' said the announcer, who obviously wanted to avert a disturbance from taking place, was in askance of the driver who apprehended me, as to if he were going to take me around the parade field's track ''for a ride'' since I was so ''enthusiastic.''

Much to everyones surprise, including mine, the driver smiled, waved at the crowd, and said heartily, ''hop in son'' to the cheers and smiles before me. To be sure, we moved away slowly, and once out of the crowds immediate presense I was told curtly to rethink my prowess.

After being asked if I enjoyed the ''show,'' the driver ''punched'' the Challenger for a moment as we rounded the corner unto the back-stretch, squealing tires and all. He gunned it down the straight-away and hurdled towards the third turn, before braking hard, and rounding the corner in a slight ''drift.'' I was indeed ''thrilled'' with the ''show'' and brazenly asked if I could ''drive?'' knowing full-well the answer could only be ''no!''

All to briefly we were back in front of the stadium where the Challenger rumbled to a stop. Getting out, I snicked the door shut and ambled towards my buddy who was standing there awe-eyed, and jealous. A bunch of us loitered around for abit looking over the cars (three automatic Duster 340s, two aurtomatic Challenger R/T 340s, and my lone 4-spd Pistol-Grip) before the announcer encouraged us to head for the ''gates'' in readiness for the next ''show'' which, was to take place in an hours time.

Next white Challenger R/T that impressed me was Kowalski's ride in Vanishing Point one year later, but, that's another story for another time...

[dog ear]

How many mags? I lost count a long time ago!

I think the oldest is a Mechanix Illustrated or Popular Mechanics from 1939. (I have older mags, but not car-related ones. A few are called "True Western Stories from 1926.) Most are from the mid-'50s to the mid-'70s.

I am interested in what you may have...perhaps you might be pursueded to part with a few of the car mags? Or, at least post a few road tests that I am interested in...

By the way, Fleet, I never drove in a 69 Caddy, but, I did cruise in a long black 68 Fleetwood.

Other Caddies were: 53 4-dr; 55 (331 w duel 2x4); 58 Eldo, 59 Eldo (390/345 w trips); 61 De Ville (390/325); 64 2-dr (Se Ville?); 70 Eldo; 71 Fleetwood; 75-76-77 Sedan De Villes?; 84 Calais; 2006, and lastly a 2010 CTS (302hp? V6)

All were beautiful cars but my personal best is the 64 and 70. Uncle Lens 2010 is nice also.

[dog ear]

Here is the 1968 pre-production Mustang Cobra Jet article with the 13.56 ET.

Ford put out an ad after this article was published in Hot Rod and made alot of ink because of it. Like many ads (back in the day) we have to be careful when reading them and coming to conclusions because many were misleading. Many of you will already have seen this ad countless times, I'm sure, but check it out anyway.

[Fleet 500]

I am interested in what you may have...perhaps you might be pursueded to part with a few of the car mags? Or, at least post a few road tests that I am interested in...

By the way, Fleet, I never drove in a 69 Caddy, but, I did cruise in a long black 68 Fleetwood.

Other Caddies were: 53 4-dr; 55 (331 w duel 2x4); 58 Eldo, 59 Eldo (390/345 w trips); 61 De Ville (390/325); 64 2-dr (Se Ville?); 70 Eldo; 71 Fleetwood; 75-76-77 Sedan De Villes?; 84 Calais; 2006, and lastly a 2010 CTS (302hp? V6)

All were beautiful cars but my personal best is the 64 and 70. Uncle Lens 2010 is nice also.

Sorry, dog ear, but I save everything! If I do decide to reduce my collection, I will let you know.

I can scan road tests... which ones would you be interested in?

A '68 Fleetwood is similar to a '69s, as far as ride & general driving traits. So if you rode in my '69, it would probably feel about the same. Same engines, too (472-cu-in).

Those are a good variety of Cadillacs you've experienced. I can see why you like the '64 and '70- both very good years for Cadillacs. My favorite years for Cads are... 1969, 1970, 1968, 1966, 1976, 1959, 1964, etc.

[dog ear]

Have any of you ever seen the Ford FE 427 (Low Riser, Medim Riser, Hi-Riser, Tunnelport, SOHC) big block back in the day? They were as rare as the Hemi, perhaps more so, because they were only offered between 1963 - 1968, and mostly in Big Fords and Mercs. After 1966, they were installed in a few Ford Fairlanes and Mercury Comet - Cyclones, until early 1968, maybe January, possibly into February. After that it was the infamous 428 Cobra Jet that grabbed the headlines.

Anyway, some of you may be wondering just what those engines were capable of making in terms of gross horsepower. Certainly more than 460.

Here is an article on the Medium Riser version of the 427 dated somewhere in the early to mid nineties; magazine unknown.

You will note that this particular engine is rated at 10.6.1 compression ratio, the same as many others that actually raced on various tracks in the mid to late sixties. This engine would be very close to what the S/C 427 Shelby Cobra and the Ford GT40s used from the factory, in 1966 - 1967, in road racing guise. NASCAR engines made more power because they utilized more compression, two 780 Holleys, and valvetrain assemblies that allowed over 7000 rpm.

Keep in mind, that the only real differences from the original Ford specs are newer valvetrain pieces, pistons, and rods. These parts should not be considered modications that will enhance higher horsepower. Ford pieces are too expensive to use today even if you could find them.

The heads are original but do have slightly larger valves (2.25 int. & 1.75 exh. vrs original 2.19 int. & 1.73 exh.) and most certainly have a performance oriented multi-angled valve job performed on the seats; something that all of the originals had on the track as well. Later on, if there is sufficient interest, I will post more factual history on the 427, but, for now lets look at the article and decide for yourselves.

[dog ear]

Sorry, dog ear, but I save everything! If I do decide to reduce my collection, I will let you know.

I can scan road tests... which ones would you be interested in?

A '68 Fleetwood is similar to a '69s, as far as ride & general driving traits. So if you rode in my '69, it would probably feel about the same. Same engines, too (472-cu-in).

Those are a good variety of Cadillacs you've experienced. I can see why you like the '64 and '70- both very good years for Cadillacs. My favorite years for Cads are... 1969, 1970, 1968, 1966, 1976, 1959, 1964, etc.

Ok, Fleet! I save everything I have as well. I will let you know what road tests I need to be sure. By the same token, if I have something you are looking for, you got it.

[Magnum9987]

Have any of you ever seen the Ford FE 427 (Low Riser, Medim Riser, Hi-Riser, Tunnelport, SOHC) big block back in the day? They were as rare as the Hemi, perhaps more so, because they were only offered between 1963 - 1968, and mostly in Big Fords and Mercs. After 1966, they were installed in a few Ford Fairlanes and Mercury Comet - Cyclones, until early 1968, maybe January, possibly into February. After that it was the infamous 428 Cobra Jet that grabbed the headlines.

Anyway, some of you may be wondering just what those engines were capable of making in terms of gross horsepower. Certainly more than 460.

Here is an article on the Medium Riser version of the 427 dated somewhere in the early to mid nineties; magazine unknown.

You will note that this particular engine is rated at 10.6.1 compression ratio, the same as many others that actually raced on various tracks in the mid to late sixties. This engine would be very close to what the S/C 427 Shelby Cobra and the Ford GT40s used from the factory, in 1966 - 1967, in road racing guise. NASCAR engines made more power because they utilized more compression, two 780 Holleys, and valvetrain assemblies that allowed over 7000 rpm.

Keep in mind, that the only real differences from the original Ford specs are newer valvetrain pieces, pistons, and rods. These parts should not be considered modications that will enhance higher horsepower. Ford pieces are too expensive to use today even if you could find them.

The heads are original but do have slightly larger valves (2.25 int. & 1.75 exh. vrs original 2.19 int. & 1.73 exh.) and most certainly have a performance oriented multi-angled valve job performed on the seats; something that all of the originals had on the track as well. Later on, if there is sufficient interest, I will post more factual history on the 427, but, for now lets look at the article and decide for yourselves.

The FE was the standard OHV big block. The SOHC was a whole other animal, never offered in street cars. Ford sold it only in crates, if you knew the secret handshakes and certain insiders. Of course over the years people swapped them into everything from dragsters, NASCARS (as they were built for), and I've seen racing boats powered by them, and they've found their way into street cars. I've dreamed of stuffing one into a Cobra and fitting it with hilborn injection. The FE made closer to 440 HP gross in Cobra trim, a little less in mustangs and cougars, and used a milder set up in all but the fastest big fords. The SOHC would scream to 8000rpm and make more than 600HP gross with the NASCAR dual quad intake and race fuel. Magnificent engine. Only Ford motors I'd ever want, those and the 429.

[Fleet 500]

Ok, Fleet! I save everything I have as well. I will let you know what road tests I need to be sure. By the same token, if I have something you are looking for, you got it.

Yes, you may have something I would like to see scanned. If you haven't already, check out my threads in the "Classic Cars" forum... the Supercars Annual '69 and Supercars Annual '71.

[dog ear]

The FE was the standard OHV big block. The SOHC was a whole other animal, never offered in street cars. Ford sold it only in crates, if you knew the secret handshakes and certain insiders. Of course over the years people swapped them into everything from dragsters, NASCARS (as they were built for), and I've seen racing boats powered by them, and they've found their way into street cars. I've dreamed of stuffing one into a Cobra and fitting it with hilborn injection. The FE made closer to 440 HP gross in Cobra trim, a little less in mustangs and cougars, and used a milder set up in all but the fastest big fords. The SOHC would scream to 8000rpm and make more than 600HP gross with the NASCAR dual quad intake and race fuel. Magnificent engine. Only Ford motors I'd ever want, those and the 429.

I believe that a factory original 427/425 Cobra made less than 400 hp gross in standard trim. Exhausts were lousy as was the 2x4V intake. Factory S/C Cobras were usually run with a single 4V MR 427 that was quoted since 1966 as having 480-485 maximum gross hp. It is true that various other 427s were putting out as little as 425-440 gross hp, and had been since 1963. In the end analysis, who can actually say unless you were there?

What I can say is what I was told back in 1970, by Barrie Poole and John Elliot out of Sandy Elliot Ford in Chatham, Ontario. At the time, the Border Bandits were well known throughout Canada and the US. They were at the top of their game.

After checking out their 68 and 69 Mustang Cobra Jets, I asked Barrie Poole some questions about his Notchback. At the time, my father owned a Royal Maroon 69 notchback 351 that was well known in East End T.O. not because it was fast, but, due to fathers antics with it on the street. Dad delighted in stop-light racing, and became a nuisance once he had a few drinks under his belt.

Anyway, Poole suggested that the CJs themselves were pushing well over 400gross hp. MR 427s (with open headers) were said to be no less than 440 - 460 hp even on a bad day, and more likely to be upwards of 475-485 hp. Of course, that largely depended on engine / header / chassis configuration. With factory cast iron exhaust manifolds I would say that the MR made less than 440 gross hp. Probably around 400-425.

HR 427s were thought to be well over 500 hp in any given state of tune. TP 427s were obviously NASCAR oriented and said to be somewhere around 525-550, maybe more.

HR 427s were only installed in the infamous Fairlane Thunderbolt, AFX Falcons, AFX Mercury Comets, AFX Mustangs, and a few AFX Galaxies.

Yes, TP, and SOHC 427s were never installed in any production cars. Both were essentially head / intake / cam conversions with ancillary parts that were purchased over the counter. In the case of the SOHC, you could purchase a complete crate setup for roughly $2000.00, if you knew the right people. In Canada, the cost was probably closer to $2500.00.

First street 427 I ever saw sat on a used car lot up on the Danforth in early spring, 1968. It was a 1964 Peacock Blue Galaxie 500 w 4-spd & 3.25.1 open diff. Out back it sat on 9.00-15 Goodyears that had seen better days. Dad took it out for a test drive in a cloud of tire smoke. Fortunatley, dad not purchase it. Mother would have had a fit, not to mention, his parole officer. What he bought a week later at another dealership down the road was a Salmon Pink over Ruby Red 1961 Chrysler Winsdor with a misplaced 383-2V engine.

Next 427 I came into close contact with was on Booth Ave, in Toronto in the 1969-1971 period. It was a red on red 1963 Ford Galaxie XL500 w the 425hp engine. Bone stock.

I had seen two or three others since dad first tried out the '64 but, only at a distance. I did go by George Massicotte's red 64 on occassion, but, I never actually checked it out up close. Apparently that was one of Barrie Poole's first rides in the big time. Thus, anothewr chapter in the saga of the 427 FE.

[Kitdy]

It is fascinating to hear you describe these stories to me; especially being a fellow Torontonian. You must have an exceptional memory. I have a huge image archive link from blog TO of historic Toronto throughout all its ages, so I will have to look through the pics to see what things looked like here 40 and 50 years ago.

[Magnum9987]

You got that right. I don't know many guys that were around at the peak of the Muscle Car era.